“In some ways, I think it can be a privilege to grow up in a religious environment, because you do have this relationship with religious text that is I think very sophisticated for children in some ways. And then you have this constant engagement with morality and ethics.”
🙄
I have done my very best to keep my kids away from that sort of so-called "morality" and "ethics" that leads to tens of thousands of raped kids and thousands more murdered or neglected to death and thrown into unmarked holes in the ground like in Tuam - but in many other places too.
So I won't be getting my hopes up for this so-called documentary... Religion is not the solution, religion is the problem. Religion is what gave these child rapists power and religion is what is still covering up for them to this day. Religion is what coerced 'respectable' Irish society into shaming women like Joanne Hayes lest religion take away its 'respectability'.
For years that personality type was a positive asset in promotion in AGS.
And how would her hearing the names of two strangers who live fifty miles away from her who she has probably never met change anything?
This documentary will give a good insight into the dynamics of the time. Cinema release on 21st April. Probably on TV later.
GSOC can't do anything. He is not a Garda and it was 40 years ago
Belligerent, arrogant and no sense of self awareness is how Id describe Gerry O'Carroll. I would also use the same description for former Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan. For years that personality type got promoted way above their station in An Garda Siochana.
Yes that should be returned if that is possible
I think Joanne Hates wanted to move on with her life 39 years ago ffs
Surely Joanne Hayes knows by now with local talk who the couple arrested are.
3 detectives including O Carroll in the Kerry babies case received substantial compo. from a libel case they took against Joanne Hayes and brandon press .Surely this money could be recovered but I suppose both injured parties have moved on with their lives
It's Gerry O'Carroll, not O'Connell.
I guess the one consolation is that his reputation is shot, and he has presumably been removed from the quick-dial button of TV stations and newspapers when they need a quote from a retired cop on some story. So that minor source of extra money/fame has been closed off.
He was acting as agent of the State, from which they have now, belatedly received an apology and compensation.
Can Joanne and her family bring a civil case against O Connell?
Not going to happen and hebwould still be entitled to some form of social welfare.
In reality, the worst he will face is knowing that his legacy is one of an absolute failure as a garda and I suspect this will hurt him more.
The chances of the Supreme Court overturning their judgement on pensions is close to nil
That should be overturned and yes take the pension, have him repay back
The Supreme Court decided long ago that pensions accrued are private property and cannot be interfered with.
The DPP probably doesn't have the appetite to go after him for any alleged abuses of his position, so unfortunately, the opportunity to deal with a rouge cop has probably long passed.
Like what??.....take his pension from him???
It is true. I was only interested in countering your assertion that these places “did a lot of good”, a vague assertion that you choose to back up with a single anecdote, ignoring the mountains of evidence from the very same sources you’re using to make your argument which suggests otherwise -
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ireland-s-proportion-of-unmarried-mothers-in-homes-was-probably-highest-in-world-1.4456279
Of course there was a lot more to it than just the social climate of the time in which pregnancy outside of wedlock caused considerable consternation not only among families due to concerns about their social status, but also among politicians who purported to be guided by religious morality in dealing with the issue of illegitimate children. “Pretend they don’t exist” appears to have been the order of the day, and in order to enforce that view in Irish society, what were once the poorhouses became institutions where what were considered social ills at the time could be hidden away from polite society where nobody cared what happened to them as long as they were out of sight and didn’t serve as a daily reminder of a cruel and sadistic society -
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/mother-and-baby-home-st-patricks-2380868-Oct2015/
I didn’t imply that being a single mother was impossible, that’s yet another strawman of your own invention to distract from the fact that unmarried mothers were viewed as moral failures, and they and their children were viewed as burdens on society, in the same way as they are today in some quarters, without the influence of the Church to fall back on as an excuse for how those people regard unmarried mothers and their children.
As for your ridiculously specific claim that I’m unaware that in the 20th century most unmarried mothers kept their babies, while admitting that most babies born to unmarried mothers were adopted, except for 2-4 exceptional years in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, yet again you’re using all sorts of conditions which suit your argument, which have nothing to do with the figures for unmarried mothers who had no other choice but to enter the homes due to the lack of support from their families who were more concerned about their daughters specifically not bringing shame on the family and being a burden on the family. Does the 20th century not consist of the period between 1900 and 2000, or am I missing a few decades? Because even then in order to force the father to maintain their illegitimate offspring, a mother had to prove in open court that he was indeed the father, something which many women just weren’t prepared to do as it would again… you guessed it - bring shame upon the family -
https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1930/act/17/enacted/en/print.html
As abhorrent and tragic as it is by today’s standards, it was pretty much the standard at the time during that period in Irish history when people were just as interested then in maintaining their social status as they are today. The mere passage of time hasn’t changed much, only that the services provided to the State by these institutions, are no longer required by the State is all.
That poor angel
Can GSOC do anything to O'Connell, is he retired on full pension now?
Today is the supposed day he was born. Happy 39th Birthday Baby John.
Retract your lie. Mad how Church bashers are so free and easy with facts when it suits their agenda. Losing track of a burial ground is not scandalous. This is why there are thousands of dead people in the national museum archives. People lose track and they are unearthed during developments.
As someone who read the reports and knows a thing or two about forensic archaeology, I can say that is not proven. We dont know that they dumped in a septic tank. We only have a dozen human remains found from Tuam and the site was disturbed in the 1970s so it is not clear what happened. I will say though that Tuam was terribly run. It should have been shut down earlier. The fact that it was shut down in heyday of Mother and Baby homes back in 1960 is a clue to the poor conditions. Other Mother and baby homes were far better run. The responsibility lies with the management the sisters, the lay women who did the care eg. Bina Rabbitte and also Dr. Costello, the home's medical officer, who seems to have been immensely negligent.
That isn't true. There is much more to it than that. Many of the babies were crisis pregnancies. Today crisis pregnancies are very often aborted and obliterated. A significant portion where due to rape. This is why these women often self-admitted. If you want to hear about such a case, read up on the tragic case of the Rape of Mary M. In that case, we see a woman who was given a terrible hand, who turned to her bishop for assistance and a way to give up her baby, and he provided it. She even named the baby after the friar who helped her. As she ended her letter that she wrote to the bishop, "help me, and help all our Irish girls"
It is untrue for you to imply that being a single mother in the community was impossible. It was impossible for Mary M. but it was possible for many other women. You probably are unaware that in the 20th cen most unmarried mothers kept their babies. Most were adopted except for about 2-4 exceptional years in the late 1950s and 1960s.
“I have only sympathy for two creatures on this,” he said, “the babies – and that’s my final word on that”.”
It may not be his final word. I fear the chickens are coming home to roost for “The Sheriff “.
The thing is he honestly believes he’s done a great job.
If not, then at the very least he will be remembered as a complete and utter failure of a human being.
Thank God that Joanne Hayes is still alive to see this (hopefully) conclude.
Uncanny.
Hopefully more than a few, maybe something like this
https://youtu.be/i0GW0Vnr9Yc
Does that mean he gets a 'few slaps across the face' as Joanne Hayes did at the start of her interrogation. Just to make sure he tells the truth.
