If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
NATO is not protecting you from either of them
Did you miss Syria and Yemen? I assume you are being facetious as the US has just concluded a twenty year war in Afghanistan etc. The USA is completely reckless militarily and cannot relate to cultures that are different to its own.
You keep asking questions about Russia. I am 100% not advocating joining a military alliance with Russia. In a similar vein I am 100% not advocating joining an alliance with the USA (NATO).
There'll be people lining up to cheer Biden,
i won't be one of those people.
To dismiss me as a 'tankie' which yurt2 has done is exceedingly rude. I've made my point, I'm finished here.
The more countries join NATO the more we look cool not following the crowd.
Well we got some ChatGPT-esque Tankie nonsense in the last couple of pages, so we may as well rip the piss.
Yes thats it. Just like in the Russia thread. There's only two options complete nato fanboi or tankie.
/s.
You really need to read up on the south China sea and what they are doing in many territories around the world where they loaned money or built infrastructure and now those countries are struggling to pay... China definitely aren't the good guys in all this
Absolutely everything listed here besides cyber security, which is in no way a military application and rather policing and prevention, is a waste of money and time and designed to let a tiny minority in this country cosplay as an army that has no purpose to exist at all.
I don't really see an answer to the initial question: Which NATO countries are currently at war, or which countries are currently being attacked by NATO?
But on the list you linked and more appropriate to the thread, NATO has been only involved in Operation Ocean Shield & Libya.
So preventing Somali pirates hijacking ships threatens the safety of the entire world?
Are you sure you're not confusing NATO with Russia?, I only ask as the later has been the ones threatening to nuke half the planet.
You can read about some of the US wars and interventions in the 21st century here:
you can find out more using a tool called Google.
I am not Google. Try Google first please.
For countries outside the US Western alliance e.g. Venezuela, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Cuba, etc., They might have a very different view on US actions globally. I expect they have a pretty negative view on drones.
I personally think stuff is happening in the 85% of the world not affiliated with the West. Iran, Saudi and Yemen making peace. OPEC oil cuts. I don't think the actions of US sponsored Israel at the Al aqsa mosque are being well received in the Arab community.
Which NATO countries are currently at war, or which countries are currently being attacked by NATO?
I see USA as the biggest threat to nuclear war. Their position as number 1 is being eroded and rather than working with nations doing well they are flexing.
China has just brokered a peace deal between Iran and Saudi and now Oman is assisting in brokering a ceasefire with Yemen. My knowledge of China is not great but they seem mainly concerned with China and do not seem interested in exporting ideology. They want belt and road for trade routes. When I look at China, I think of the great wall built to keep people out.
There's a separate thread for Russia.
Definitely think joining NATO would be a terrible idea.
Personally IMHO the authoritarian regimes in Russia and China in particular are the biggest threat right now.
Oh that pinch was changed by that oh 攮 a year born when you were too hungry listen to starve to death.
I don't have ideology further than killing people is awful. NATO threatens the safety of the entire world. Anyone thinking we should join...
It is not certain whether nuclear missiles or bombs will be placed there is it? NATO membership does not mean that.
Afaik there are no US missiles with nuclear warheads or US nuclear bombs for use by aircraft placed in the "new" members that joined after collapse of Soviet Union.
I think it was a few years ago that Putin upped the ante in Europe (as regards nuclear weapons), started edging out of treaties and trying to develop new and improved "delivery" platforms (would improve likelyhood of a first strike being successful), and now he has his glove puppet in Belarus also hosting nuclear missiles and helping with the nuclear willy waving as well.
If you want to pour scorn on morons banging war drums who are working on improving conditions to spark WW3 in Europe through either stupidity or error/accident, look to Russia and its leaders.
edit: Anyway, lets be honest here, bar massive political earthquakes in Finland (pop ~ 5.5m, peaceful and formerly neutral non nuclear armed democracy), the only likely scenario where govt. will launch missiles on Moscow is if Russia (pop. ~ 144.7m, led by a dictator with a strong track record for finding military solutions to his problems, has enough nukes to end the world) has already started an attack of some sort on them.
Surely your ideology will allow you to admit that!?
Iceland doesn't even have a military and is a member. I'm neither for nor against it as I haven't done enough research, but I'm sure NATO would love to have us purely because of our geography.
Russia now has 7 minutes in which to decide to retaliate if Finland send a missile to Moscow by mistake. 7 minutes to decide whether or not to destroy the world. If NATO moves into Ukraine, that drops to 5 minutes.
That's the end of human civilization and possibly humanity too. By all means have a European type NATO security agreement but exclude the USA. There should be no US troops in Europe.
Moronic is not strong enough to describe the situation IMHO.
I assume the op means join nato and contribute nothing 😂
we really need to get our radar up to standard and develop a military cyber team , those are little things we can do
Would not have categorised government and society in both Finland and Sweden as "moronic" but 🤷♀️. People we could often learn from I would have thought in my ignorance rather than scorning them as stupid war-mongers (vs enlightened, virtuous and superior Ireland full of good people like you I presume?).
Anyway that said I don't think Ireland needs to join NATO and we're not mentally ready to have that conversation yet anyway.
Baby steps, like deciding do we want an Irish defence forces or not at all first (doesn't seem certain given what a total shambles it appears to be + I feel government and public unwillingness to see extra money spent or effort made to try and fix that) and what to we want them to do.
I believe he was saying that OUR best role is that of diplomacy and negotiation. While the strong powers handle the liars and psychopaths element.
Its clear today, as in ww2, that we're not going to change the tide of any war through our military power. Best we can do is hold our little fort.
But we can be a bit useful as one of the more neutral voices, as an entity that can be referenced during deliberations and negotiations of bigger powers.
If we're seen as not really having a dog in the race then in some circumstances our opinion has a higher level of merit when various diplomats and politicians are debating both internally and externally.
You're either deranged, deluded or facetious. In any case there are other threads for such discussions. No to NATO for me. That is all.
Totally agree, NATO has become dangerous to peace, which defies its purpose
I'm not decided on the topic, so don't take it as that please.
...but what diplomacy can you really do with liar psychopaths? Or you're suggesting they're reasonable people (Putin, Lavrov, etc...), they just didn't get their rights respected enough?
Shocked to see this. Hard to think of anything more moronic globally and nationally than joining an organisation that seems hell bent on causing war led by a country devolving into polarised hysteria.
If Ireland has a role to play that stabilises and improves the world, diplomacy and not war mongering should be that role imho
If we gave Chuck Norris Irish citizenship we wouldn't need to join NATO, just a thought
Happy to have the conversation. That little jest was aimed at no one individual in particular.
Also I cant lose the argumemt, there is no argument.
Well if theyre such ""semi excuses"" why cant you counter them in any way.
I dont even need to give reasons, Irelands not in nato and Im quite content with that. Its the people who want a different state of affairs that need to come up with the reasons and the answers to the obvious objections and problems.
Won't be that long til greater Europe can coordinate overwhelming power relative to Russia and thus no pressing need for nato to hang around.
Using terms of abuse like that and refusing to even have the conversation, kinda loses you the argument, no matter what you believe.
You didn’t actually list problems, they were just a random list of semi-excuses.
And for the record, I amn’t a fan of NATO but it will be the main vehicle for defence in Europe in the wake of Russia’s aggression. The EU doesn’t have anything to match it and won’t so long as we and an increasing small number of other EU countries go into hysterics anytime anyone mentions defence in the EU.
Lol. No.
Russias ability to cut cables anywhere in the Atlantic say experts.
Much safer in the mid Atlantic, plus much more menacing on the world stage.
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