Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
I thought it was odd they travelled on Tuesday, I had assumed they'd be on the plane on Sunday or Monday.
You're right. Was at a wedding for the weekend and all days ran into one another!
The Glasgow game was Saturday evening.
I don't think we can underestimate how much of an impact the travel has also. Not sure it would have made a difference but, given it was a Friday game against Glasgow, I was surprised they didn't fly out until Tuesday night. From arrival in Durban, they'd have had only 72 hours to get themselves ready for the game. Whilst the time difference is minimal, those guys would have had either very little or very poor quality rest/sleep on the trip before having to play in those conditions. At that level of performance, the fine margins count and that undoubtedly would have had a negative impact.
The Stormers are in the middle of a truly horrible run of travel/fixtures right now (away to Leinster, home to Harlequins, away to Exeter, home to Munster all in consecutive weekends) . I would say that Munster should heavily target that game to secure their URC league finish. It shouldn't be as hot in Cape Town either.
Hard to see why they were so off the pace.
you mentioned it already.
obviously exacerbated by the heat and humidity
it was 29 degrees and near 80% humidity. Every team would struggle in those conditions.
by the 80th minute some players even found it difficult to raise their arms.
Watching the Munster Sharks game back last night I simply could not get over how passive they were in attacking Sharks ruck ball and committing numbers to protect their own ball. The contrast to the ferocity of the Sharks clear outs was so stark.
Granted, a lot of this is just down to the quality of forwards they had out there, but looking back at it last night, it looked like conditioning was a big factor for Munster (obviously exacerbated by the heat and humidity).
Guys were visibly blowing 15-20 mins in, and the clips of the Munster team emerging for the second half looked like guys who's heads were gone.
They've had a long time to prepare for this game, and the bulk of that squad were together during the 6N period. Hard to see why they were so off the pace.
Munster have to be allowed to sign another prop though next season.
This, a million times over.
The front row has been a chronic problem for years, and it's baffling to me how heading into a new season with Archer and Ryan on board is helping either Munster or Ireland.
Loughman is a big enough unit. He was developed as a tighthead before moving across in his early twenties which is potentially why his scrummaging is sometimes lacking slightly similar to Andrew Porter.
He's still probably the best option there though and has handling skills that the other props don't possess which is key to being able to keep the ball moving and expose gaps in the opposition.
Equally key for Munster is his age profile. Kilcoyne, Ryan and Archer are all 35 this year. It's important for them to have someone like Loughman available whose age profile gives a good blend of experience and still having his best ahead of him.
Munster have to be allowed to sign another prop though next season. Those three lads are all thinking about retirement at some point in the next 1-2 years. There's three props in the academy but, to the best of my knowledge, none of them looked like they were certainties for significant professional careers.
Ya, he's been used a good amount for that pull back pass to layered runners a number of times to good effect. I think he'd be our starting loosehead this season, but for injury.
Front-row has been a problem area for us against top tier opposition for such a long time now tho. I remember back to the first SF vs Saracens in the Aviva under Rassie (so 2016/17).
Starting front-row that day? Killer, Scannell, Ryan. Would likely have been the exact same at the weekend, but for JR going to the Chiefs.
I don’t think Loughman lacks size, he is quite lean for a prop but is in no way small. I think it can be deceptive some times looking at players on the pitch. When you stand beside him though you can see it. I do think his scrummaging could do with some improvement at times. As he doesn’t seem to transfer that power. Mind you, scrummaging is not the most important aspect for Irish props these days and Loughman has good hands.
Maybe I’ve misjudged that, but it seemed to me he was bit off the elite guys like Porter and Baile.
Still, his handling is very encouraging.
Lack size? He's probably the heaviest loosehead in Ireland?
Ryan will be a stopgap, but showed this season he still has something to offer alright.
I think Loughman might lack a little size, but I’m encouraged by what he’s shown in the loose the last 12 months or so tho.
Loughman looks like the coming player for Ireland at loosehead, and there's Ryan returning next season at tighthead (albeit he can't have too long left at the very top). Two good players there.
And you got that based on what, One game. They have the look of a side who can win a game against a side with no breakdown. Thrr we y still aren’t a great side and as soon as they go north that will be exposed.
I still haven't seen the game either.
Florugby.tv, more than once, have completely sh*t the bed on getting replays up on their site.
Even the 35 scored was flattering tbh, phog, 21 of those scored when the game was essentially over…
I didn't see the game yet, I didn't think we'd win down there today but I also didn't expect us to concede 50 points. Scoring 35 points away from home is excellent but worthless when you concede 50, defence is now an issue that needs to be resolved before our next trip to SA.
They’ll benefit from continuity of selection from now to the end of the season. I posted this earlier:
Etzebeth has started 3 URC games all season. Mapimpi has started 4. Kolisi has started 2. Mbonami 3. Ox Nche 4. Am 3. And so on.
Etzebeth injury obviously a big loss if he misses any games, but the rest could double their URC starts between now and the end of the knock-out stages.
Yeah they obviously do, especially at home.
Id imagine they’ll be somewhat frustrated themselves today with a lot of their defending too.
Hendrikse looked to have dislocated his shoulder so is presumably done for a while. If Etzebeth is out for (presumably) Toulouse next week it would be probably insurmountable.
And one game does not a season make. They have the players to trouble any team.
They had the bulk of their Springboks last week when they were comfortably beaten by a decidedly average Scarlets side.
I don't think he's the right guy for the job to be honest...not looking good for him
Hate seeing posters saying certain players should be sacked. I know this is just frustration during a match, but players deserve better. Archer, in particular, is a great servant to Munster rugby, and approaching the highest number of appearances (just behind DO’C I think). So, he must be doing and has been doing something right through all those coaches. Coaches are another matter and Leamy needs to up his game, but even then, calling for sackings is a bit OTT.
Also, maybe everyone has too high an expectation of Munster rugby. They haven’t won the Heineken cup since 08 and you could argue they were lucky to get two. Leinster hadn’t , by their own admission, got their act together by then. The French teams, especially away from home, couldn’t be arsed by and large. All changed now, of course. I think Munster have reached their level. Getting out of the pool stages, and competitive, but unlikely to win, the URC. That’s it. Good, honest players, trying their best every game. The other teams have got stronger.
is that good enough? No idea. Don’t know the ins and outs of finance in Munster to judge. But, I can’t see it changing any time soon.
I think Standers handling occasionally got unfair criticism, but I’d still rate Coombe’s as much, much better.
For me, I think the area Coombes suffers in comparison to CJ is his tackling.
Don't agree at all - they look like a team that are switching on when it counts and a lot of those players will be looking to hit form at the right time for the tri-nations.
Leinster got a lesson last year from the SA teams, am hoping it was learned.
You aren't having a go - you're just disagreeing which is fine. I think a Coombes that's a bit quicker off the mark, off the ground and has a better range of passes and timing off both sides is a regular Irish international. I think he's shown up well in arm wrestles plenty of times and I don't think it's a lack of effort in these games, but when Munster are on the back foot he doesn't have the scramble and when contact isn't on his terms he (and a lot of the Munster pack) are technically second best too often, leading to fast opposition ball and compounding the issues for a pack that isn't mobile enough. You can be big and somewhat immobile pack or a mobile and not overly heavy pack but if you're neither then you have a problem. I rate Hodnett, Combes and POM individually but I don't think it's a balanced backrow. You would need a David Wallace style player at openside for that to work imo.
I don't think he has top class pace for an 8 so having a bit more variety in his game before contact would go a long way - but he's reminiscent of Stander in that while he can pass, it's not a strength of his game nor does he create any doubt for defenders. Stander to be fair rounded out his game before he retired, hopefully Coombes can do the same.
Pitch being in terrible condition was the main issue for the first Sharks try today, Frisch not at fault at all for the turf disintegrating beneath him, but everything after that was pressure and power. Can't fault the effort, just too many players not at the required level and a few underperformances and lapses in concentration.
Sharks look very much like a championship team.
Yup, really have been blown away, similar to what was happening at the start of the season, that was turned around so hopefully it can be again.
Was pleased with RG even though he tried to force it a bit, Beirne and RG in the same side next season could be amazing.
People said similar about the Bulls last season.
Munster have been taken to the cleaners at the breakdown in consecutive games and it has led to losses on both games. I don't know if it's a coaching issue or a personnel one but either way the backrow needs to be far more involved than they have been.
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