It would take a lot to live with it the guilt etc if you knew
First port of call might not be the guards though
Could be a priest to absolve yourself in a general way without divulging specifics
I doubt they would ever come forward if it wasn't from dna close relative trace aka a sibling of John giving dna
I feel for the siblings as I think they were not aware but the fact the parents kept quiet all this time is just wrong and paints them in bad light, an innocent family was "tortured"
Of course we don't know all the facts but I make no excuses of my feelings about the parents as they did wrong and stayed quiet, it's a very emotive case especially as a baby was murdered so violently
Can you highlight some examples of people on this thread "spewing hatred" please?
First I heard of it.
That’s really not saying much tbh.
I didn’t put words in your mouth either. I was the person who said Cahirciveen was idyllic and full of imbeciles. Simplest explanation ‘n’ all that, lucky for the locals I guess that Jessica Fletcher didn’t settle in Cahirciveen, ye got stuck with the Keystone cops instead 😒
Everything seems to leak here
Don't think that happens in UK or NI
Joanne Hayes for the record, was not vilified by all and sundry. The local people supported her. The general public were horrified at how she and her family were treated.
Cover ups of violent infant homicides were common place amongst medical professionals, parish priests and gardai in the 80s? First I heard of it.
I never said Caherciveen was idyllic or full of imbeciles. You're putting words in my mouth
There is a banner headline in The Kerry's Eye this week proclaiming that the DNA proves the two are the parents.
Now The Kerry's Eye is a bit of a rag so I'm not sure how much is true, or who the source is, and I have no interest in buying it to find out more.
The Newstalk piece that is linked recently on this thread is using The Kerry's Eye as it's source.
So right now The Kerry's Eye is the only publication that is saying they are the parents.
Nothing official from the Gardai.
Obviously the Gardai may not be saying anything official for operational reasons seeing as files have been sent to the DPP.
A baby was stabbed to death. It's a pretty horrific crime. It's not like it was accidental or anything like that. And the number of wounds that were inflicted was so excessive.
The parents either did it or know who did. If they were living in fear of their lives, that's one thing but if they weren't then they're involved in a cover-up for a horrendous crime.
Having said that, maybe there was a mental health break and there was no malicious intent, but we simply don't know.
I personally have no sympathy for them but that's because I don't know the details. I also don't hate them because, once again, I don't have the details.
Until we know more, people will unfortunately draw their own conclusions either positive or negative against the people involved.
Assuming they're not the murderer(s) themselves, they covered up for the murderer for 39 years and were only identified because of the actions of someone else.
That's nothing to be proud of even if what happened to the Hayes family had not occurred.
So yes I think it's right that they have serious questions to answer and should be held accountable for their silence if nothing else.
Actually it was probably because of how Joanne Hayes was vilified by all and sundry because of utter incompetence and aggressive tactics of the gardai that were so bad it got Joanne Hayes to admit to a crime she did not do, that the real parents kept quiet.
And the manner in which they were arrested shows little has changed in the gardai.
No-one knows the back story, yet like Irish society back then, some people are vilifying this couple. In a way Irish society has not changed much either.
The spew of hatred by some including some posters here with no understanding or information is despicable in itself.
Reports do say that they "provided voluntarily DNA samples but I would think it is somewhat similar to voluntarily providing a breath sample at a roadside breathylizer test, refuse and you will very quickly be advised of your obligations.
Once arrested I expect the provisions of the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence and DNA Database System) Act 2014 https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/11/enacted/en/html would come into play.
I agree. It's unconscionable that they kept quiet and watched why the Hayes were put through the wringer. It must be a source of great shame and regret to them. There is still the bad odour of the Garda investigation and all the facts need to be established at this stage, in the interests of respect for the force itself. This case is about much more than who killed wee baby John.
Both parents still together and stayed silent all this time, despicable behaviour imho and I presume went on to have other kids as dna trace
Media reports said they volunteered them
Didn't think they had to
If he is going to make a statement, I'd rather he told us how a number of people from a family admitted a murder they weren't involved in with matching details (which were known to be false).
One of the purposes of their arrest was probably for obtaining DNA samples. Once arrested they would have been obliged to provide DNA samples.
If the DNA results have confirmed the parents of Baby John, will that fecking Garda Gerry O'Carroll finally concede that Joanne was not his mother, and apologise?!?
To be fair we know nothing at this stage. The parents would have had a duty of care and at this point that's what the Gardai will be expecting them to explain.
Either they handed over the baby to someone else in the belief that the baby would be ok, or they committed the crime themselves.
If it's the former, then they'll need to explain that to the gardai.
The parents should be charged with withholding evidence in a murder investigation if they don't talk.
This is their chance to set the record straight and bring closure to the whole episode.
The passage of time won’t have changed anything really. Consider that only a couple of months ago Government announced that people who were given up for adoption would now be able to much easier trace their birth mothers, and the furore there was about that, primarily because it violated the ‘promise’ that was made to these women at the time that their pregnancy and subsequent consent to have their children adopted, would be kept private -
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/women-who-gave-up-their-children-for-adoption-should-not-be-made-to-suffer-twice-1.3945606
I don’t think it’s fair to assume anyone thinks how Joanne Hayes was treated was ok or acceptable or that anyone else who didn’t come forward is responsible for how she was treated. They’re two completely separate circumstances. Joanne Hayes was vilified because even though she couldn’t be held criminally liable for murder, people were pretty much non-plussed about what happened to her given what she had done, which became public knowledge.
You really can’t imagine why anyone who knew who was responsible for murdering a baby wouldn’t come forward when they saw how Joanne Hayes was publicly vilified? Put yourself in that scenario and ask yourself would you come forward, knowing that every inch of your life would be picked apart and twisted in order to satisfy a baying mob mentality seeking “justice”. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I think it’s not unreasonable to assume people value their privacy.
Is that DNA confirmation a garda leak ?
Report says the solicitor confirmed parentage but is not saying it publicly
Unless they had an active part in or actual knowledge of the violence that was done to the child the it is likely that the statute of limitations will have run out. Their other children must now be looking at their parents in a different light. It might be possible to be overwhelmed by an older adult if that was the reason why they did not stop it or come forward at or around the time. Thereafter it is less understandable. This is not an incident of theft or some other crime which might be covered up. They must have had some reasonable suspicion that the baby was theirs and to fail to do any thing about it for 40 years speaks poorly of their moral character. How they can even have proceeded to have further children without the overwhelming reminder of their first child.
They are counting Joanne Hayes's baby too.
Does anyone know why its called the kerry babies case instead of the kerry baby case?
It was only one baby right?
Presumably they were following legal advice in providing the DNA samples ?
Or why would they do it at all I don't know ?
You would have to assume not if they're following legal advice
Probably no proof of anything criminal without an admission
I know there is a very sad story for the parents of Baby John - I do have compassion for them and understand they may have been under pressure to stay quiet. The passing of time though would have changed that - they should have came forward.
Im shocked by the lack of compassion shown in this thread for Joanne Hayes and what she has suffered. I know the gardai are to blame for this but so are babys Johns parents because they could have stopped the trauma Joanne went through publicly. I cant see how people can think its ok that they didnt come forward and Joanne just took one for the team!
I think jumping to the conclusion of a massive cover up involving local gardai, the parish priest and local GP is a bit bonkers when there are far simpler, plausible explanations. It is a discussion group though so I guess it should all be entertained.
Using your ‘simplest explanation is the correct one’ theory, there’s a simple explanation too as to why you imagine something which was common practice at the time is a bonkers theory that couldn’t possibly apply to idyllic wee Cahirciveen where the villagers are as innocent as they are thick as two planks, apparently. That just about describes every town, village and city in Ireland, anywhere really, where people would rather believe it just didn’t happen.
I don’t think that discovering the identity of the baby’s biological parents will inevitably lead to discovering who murdered the baby either. It didn’t in the Dalkey case where the child who is now an adult gave evidence that her mother took the baby, and the baby was later found dead -
https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/garda-issue-new-appeal-for-information-about-baby-murdered-in-the-dalkey-house-of-horrors-case/39628026.html
It’s incredibly easy from an outside perspective to say anyone ‘could have done the right thing’, and completely ignore any potential consequences for them of doing the right thing, and why they felt they couldn’t, or shouldn’t, and likely never will.
The police are a step closer. I wonder if the parents will provide any information.
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