The DUP refusing to let Sinn Fein have First Minister means a December Assembly Election. Will the numbers change in a fresh Election?
What parties seats are vulnerable or who might make gains in any constituencies ??
To be perfectly honest downcow I think the idea that the DUP brought anyone to the negotiating table was scotched by how it all worked out. It was primarily rumblings from the ERG and internal Tory fighting that brought that about. As soon as Sunak found a way to subdue/sideline the ERG, Unionism was thrown as firmly as could be, under the bus. 515 wheels v 29.
Also, the notion it is a better deal is contested within Unionism:
Sammy Wilson briefing too that it is 'not a great deal'.
How widespread would you say the quandary you are in, is? And which of the parties do you think will win most hearts and minds locally?
P.S. I don't see similar huge issues facing the nationalist vote, so wouldn't expect much of a shift. SDLP seem to be having some candidate issues and I can't fathom why they are sticking with Eastwood. He'll be watching how they perform nervously I'd imagine.
Fractured or diverse?. The unionist community is coming through challenging days and therefore, rightly, is having internal conversations and disagreements. I have no concerns about the ‘unionist vote’, it is completely in agreement about the maintenance of the union. It’s actually the nationalist vote that is fractured on this issue. Polls show that many voting for nationalist parties actually support the union. You will be hard pushed to find any fracturing like this in unionist voters.
absolutely I couldn’t second guess at this time how unionists will vote in the next election. I personally am all over the place and would have valid reasons for voting for anyone of the three or none
UUP - as they were the party who did not support brexit and saw much of this mess coming and are close to my morals
DUP - they have stayed out of stormont and brought the eu and Uk to the negotiating table while all nationalist parties were calling for ‘full implementation’. These parties now accept the DUP got us a better deal.
TUV - a vote to show eu and Uk how opposed we are to protocol
none - a kick up the ass to them all
I could also give valid reasons not to vote for each.
so interesting times but I am confident unionism will be stronger because of these challenges.
so I don’t know how I will vote never mind other unionists
how do people think nationalists will vote. Same old, same old, or is there likely to be evolution and dynamism ?
With local elections coming up in May (just around the corner really) Unionist unity seems to be a distant dream. Multiple spats now taking place between key voices. It has already seemed to have jumped the shark with this contribution from Kate Hoey aimed squarely at the UUP which sparked a nasty row between Doug Beattie and Jamie Bryson etc
“If Stormont goes back with the present Windsor Framework, they in fact would be almost like what happened during the war with the Vichy government, where all those MLAs would be collaborators with a kind of colonial government."
With the Orange Order seemingly directing votes to the TUV if the DUP renege on going back into powersharing,(seems to me it is the implied messaging in their intervention on the WF Protocol) will the Unionist vote be completely fractured?
Right, after a number of pages tit-for-tat posts regarding anthems, flags, the IRFU and so on, I take it that we have finished up discussing the Assembly elections.
If people wish to continue discussing the election, then do so or I will close this thread the next time I open it.
Of course my preference is that teams would represent countries. That shouldn’t be such a great surprise people. I have done the sums and 99.98% of people in the world operate they way I prefer, our island is the only exception I can find. Having said that, I would be very happy to support the current all-island two-country teams which span an international border, if there would be near-equal recognition to the identity of those living in each side of the border. It’s not an unreasonable request.
Or do some of you think that is an unreasonable request?
Based on reading the last posts, it would appear that the IRFU needs to be split in two so there’s no confusion about which jurisdiction the players represent - since people aren’t willing to compromise on either the old formula of play one anthem in Belfast and the other one in Dublin or the obvious alternative of play none at all.
That of course is what soccer did and I don’t think it did soccer any favours in either jurisdiction.
Here is another sporting success story local to me featuring what can happen when barriers are broken down and people come out of their bubbles. I know all the people interviewed here. Two members of my family have played for Rodney's team.
Coincidently featured on RTE today.
It’s not me trying to dismantle one of the most successful examples of inclusion in Ireland over a flag and a bit of music.
Francie this discussion has zero to do with success or not. It is about the inability of republicans to take on any responsibility for division and their inability to see their own prejudice. Sad really. But it’s a case of ‘if you know, you know’ and clearly you don’t yet know. Hopefully someday
As I said earlier, inclusion will never keep everyone happy, on either side. That is the reality, unfortunate as it is.
It's a shame and I feel sorry for you, as this is now a hugely successful team heading for a World Cup after winning a Grand Slam and you cannot get behind them. It is genuinely your loss.
I'm aware there are those who would happily watch as it all burns down and I make no apologies for being proud and protective of what has been achieved across most sports in Ireland. From golf to babminton to rugby.
The height of arrogance. Francie is going to tell me what song includes me. Doesn’t matter what I feel, francie knows best. You couldn’t make it up.
And that is why Ireland's Call is played, to include those from Northern Ireland which doesn't have an anthem of it's own.
….and ss is not the anthem of the island of Ireland.
here’s the difference in you and me. I have worked tirelessly to try and stop gstq being played at OWC matches, but the ifa have no courage to face down the tiny hard rump, just like Ireland rugby and ss. Difference is you want to defend the playing of ss and you don’t give a toss about the feelings of people like me.
He is from the UK, but the Irish team, as he understands, is not representing the UK.
I think Scottish and Welsh people would beg to differ on what their anthem is.
Sarcastic laughing sort of gives the game away.
I know you don't like agreements where you have to compromise.
For the record here, I hate anthems, if I never had to stand for or hear one again, I would be happy. I feel similarly about flags.
If we have to have a new anthem for a UI, I will be campaigning for a lyricless one out of respect for everyone. The flag can be treated similarly as well.
The Ireland team does not represent the UK which GSTK is the anthem of. Simple as.
I am not aware of a rugby player who has turned down an Irish place because of the anthems or flag.
Well here we go. The true francie. “There is zero representation of the 'UK' on the Irish team. NONE. It is an all Ireland representative side”. I can assure you that Rory best would tell you he is from the Uk. That post of yours says a lot.
man’s you argument collapses agian as you refer to the Uk anthem as the “anthem of the England team”. The England team play it because it is their national anthem. Wales and Scotland choose to play something that is not a national anthem. Yet you harp on about gstq cannot be played because - well I don’t know anymore
Francie your ‘not the official national anthem’ argument is dancing on the head of a pin. You have no problem with Irelands call being played which is not an official national anthem, but you couldn’t stomach my anthem being played - but yet you accuse my community of getting het up over a song. As you say it is only a song. Surely if it made me feel fully included you wouldn’t mind a wee song being played.
ha ha ha, that wicki doesn't even go to primary sources of the book. It just uses the Guardian article I posted as the source.
NI has no official anthem. Fact.
GSTQ is used by some organisations but it quite simply isn't the anthem. It is the anthem of the England team who are also in the UK and is not the anthem of Scotland or Wales.
The Union flag is also not the official flag of NI, it doesn't have an official flag.
There is zero representation of the 'UK' on the Irish team. NONE. It is an all Ireland representative side.
The 1000's upon 1000's who support the all Ireland team, the many who have happily and magnificently played for it and the continued membership of the IRFU of northern clubs and province of Ulster begs to differ with you on 'inclusion'.
Here we are. In none other than francies bible, Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland%27s_Call
….and I know that won’t be enough either. It’s like trying to convince Ian Paisley that the free p church is conservative
GSTQ is the anthem of the UK, of which N.I. is part.
You said earlier today the Union Jack was the flag of "Britain". I corrected you, by pointing out to you it is the national flag of the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland. As I said, it is so called because it combines the crosses of the three countries united under one Sovereign - the kingdoms of England and Wales, of Scotland and of Ireland (although since 1921 only Northern Ireland has been part of the U.K.).
Looking at the tricolours around the stadium, listening to anti-English rebel songs, and listening to AnaF......now I know you boasted that that was "inclusive" but I do not think so.
A single non attributable anecdote is not proof of anything.
Like Jamie you'll claim a victory no matter what.
It's a 'story' downcow that you repeated as fact, without any proof it actually happened.
Forgot to point that out.
TBH I am picturing someone like Moss Keane, full of porter, standing on a table telling that yarn. 😁
Because GSTQ is not the anthem of NI. NI has no agreed flag either.
The Commonwealth Games team even recognise this and use an obsolete flag of the former NI government o and the Derry Air/Danny Boy as the anthem
Irish Cricket use Ireland's Call.
You need to do some research in what the basic standards of verification are.
One reference in a book from 15 years ago that is not in itself referenced to anywhere is not verifiable.
Events have already shown us one claim is untrue (that they would never play in Belfast again)
It’s all gone quiet francie since you posted the reason there are no games in Belfast. Only you have the courage to continue. Foolhardy or brave? I’m not sure
You say “Not everyone is waiting to be offended by a song or a bit of Irish Francis”
so francie tell me why people get so upset about any intention to play gstq at a home rugby game in Belfast ? Or indeed both anthems relevant to the island and both flags at Dublin games? I think you argument is in tatters again.
All you have to do now downcow is find verification that this happened. It remains an anecdote until then. Kinda like, 'my friend told me this...'
Posters are correct here, you have zero proof this happened. You posted it originally as a fact and didn't mention it was an anecdote in a book very few have heard of.
