I predict we won’t hear the end of this soon in this environment of fearmongering about wokeism just as I predict it won’t advance the gun debate an iota.
Aged 28, she was a former student. It was a private church school. The motive is unclear. Median age of a school shooter is 16
State officials already extended (and defended) the traditional issuance of Thoughts and Prayers TM.
What is 'a determined mass murderer'? are you assuming that all mass murderers in the US who use firearms are 'determined mass murderers?
Maybe they're 'opportunistic mass murderers' or 'dim mass murderers' or 'lazy mass murderers' who wouldn't put in the effort to create something like sarin gas and the main reason they go ahead with their plan is the ease of access to firearms.
Maybe they're 'squeamish mass murderers' who can deal with the detachment of pulling a trigger but in no way would be able to deal with the horror that is stabbing someone.
The idea that people would start going to lengths like creating toxic substances or running around on stabbing frenzies in lieu of firearms being available is laughable.
So you mean it's practically impossible because people are electing legislators who don't want to do it.
So why don't you write to your Congressman and tell him you won't vote for him/her unless he agrees to jettison the Amendment?
Change has to start somewhere, right?
You’re always welcome to start them. My records show I do and those threads demonstrate for themselves why I don’t do it often, usually full to the gills of the same caricatures that bemoan the very existence of those threads and absent many people such as yourself that indicate they want to discuss it earnestly. Go figure.
the 2nd amendment isn't the problem, the problem is at a state level
some regulate the sales of guns some don't
guess which of the shithole states have most of the mass shootings
Guns can fire semi-automatically several times faster than that.
I brought Sarin gas up as an example of the plethora of ways in which mass murder could be attempted - including methods which are highly impractical and involve extreme effort. In that context it is not ridiculous at all, because it has actually happened and illustrates the point beautifully.
Previously I mentioned driving a truck into a crowd and your counter-argument was "not everyone can drive a truck". Your opinion seems to be that mass-murders if denied access to firearms would simply give up because every other alternative is too difficult or requires too much effort. It says more about your perspective than it does about the issue at hand. There is abundant evidence that mass-murders are not deterred by lack of access to firearms.
RIP to victims.
I see arguments re why does this have a thread and not other mass shootings etc and of course may be more high profile due to the trans aspect. However, seems very reasonable to make this primarily about guns and not gender issues /gender rights etc.
IMO always will come back to gun control /availability and attitude to same in US.
After RTAs(and ridiculous this is number one with all the safe car technology and new roads etc) , guns are next leading cause of deaths in children in US. Yes that’s correct 2nd most common cause of cause of death in children!!!!!!!
I don’t see any homemade pipe bomb /sarin gas countries competing with that!
would you prefer to confront an adult with a spoon, a knife, a flintlock pistol, a gun that can fire 60 rounds a minute, or one that can fire 60 per second
Truck defeated by roadblock
Pipe bombs? Not only do they require special skill to make they require specific resources that are much more easily tracked (including the bomb making instructions themselves) in the ChatGPT age from the Unabomber age. It’s actually easier for the feds to track the merchant codes for this stuff iirc than it is for firearms, for which merchant codes have been successfully lobbied against 🤷🏻♂️ that’s right republicans think it’s just too much of an infringement to have an MCC for that. 🤷🏻♂️
They are not "mass murderers" until they become mass murderers, in the USA that is done predominately with easily attainable military grade weaponry.
Your whataboutery has no basis in reality.
you seem really pissed off at me for some reason.
Huh. This is an Irish forum. Like most posters here I am Irish but have an interest in American politics. Thankfully I don't have to personally worry about these issues affecting me or my family.
It's practically impossible to change their constitution because the bar to making changes is extremely high. In today's partisan environment where practically everything becomes a divisive political issue in the USA then it becomes all but impossible.
Determined mass-murderer is someone who has thought about it at length, is very intent on carrying it out, planning to die in the process of carrying it out.
Typically there is some planning involved - which may include procuring firearms/ammo over a length of time, manufacturing pipe-bombs, staking out a location, drawing maps, writing a manifesto, recording a farewell message, etc.
This describes the majority of mass-murderers which have made headlines. It seems to describe the killer in this case, there has been mention of a manifesto.
If a disturbed person is determined to this degree to carry out a mass-killing, the notion that they would quit because of increased firearm restrictions is laughable.
Yup. One of the world's best speed shooters was able to accurately shoot 12 shots from a 6 shot revolver in 3 seconds. That includes time reloading the revolver. Of course he is an extreme example. I've fired the same model revolver (S&W 625) and it takes me more than 3 seconds just to do the reload. 🙂But yeah, a semi-auto will fire as quickly as you can pull the trigger. For most people the faster you pull the trigger the less accurate you get, but if all you're trying to do is spray a crowd you can get off a lot of shots very quickly.
Right now the extremely conservative Supreme Court has been taking a hammer and chisel to those state laws. Their arguments are based ultimately on the second amendment. So yes, that is and will be, for the lifetime of this current court, a problem.
And yet tougher gun control/restrictions have proven to reduce mass shootings (mass murderers) across the planet. Americans resist tighter gun control and mass shootings (mass murderers) increase - hmmmm, what do you think could be a contributing factor to mass shootings, surely it couldnt be guns O.o
You seem emotional. Am I doing it right?
Your pithy deflections aside you made snide remarks about the OP/creation of the thread and when called out on your own agency to create the threads or with the narrative or slant you want you complained don’t exist, you seem eager to change the subject to whether I am tldr ‘triggered’ by you personally
No like I said, if you ever want to discuss them I’m happy to, has nothing to do with being “pissed off” at you. Own your agency.
there decisions are based on personal outlook, lets be honest, when you have them overturning previous supreme court decisions
in fairness, this thread is the same as all the other gun violence threads
you can understand their point
People see injustice in the world and wanna vent, gun deaths in the states fall under that.
Without knowing anything really about the motive of the killer, their effort to prepare, or even if they wrote a manifesto or anything etc. then everything you’re talking about is just idle conjecture. We haven’t a clue if they planned every detail of it for 10+ years or for less than 10 minutes. Don’t even know from last nights reporting anyway where the guns came from. Hell, there is still confusion in reporting about the sex and gender of the killer.
I don’t see how the conjecture about Sarin Gas etc. is particularly constructive. But then I predicted in the OP the gun angle would wind up going in circles fruitlessly didn’t I.
where was in the injustice?
Then why are there so rare in countries with good gun control?
You points actually prove the opposite to what you say
I continue to be flummoxed at the Robert’s court and it’s “historical tradition” arguments it’s made. “That’s how we always have done it” is, I am often told, one of the biggest red flags for poor management. Robert’s wants the US Jurisprudence locked into doubling down on obsolescence.
6 innocent people are dead because of gun violence, I'd class that as an injustice, would you not?
Just Another day in America...
not really injustice
a caused tragedy yes, people look for this freedom and it comes with a price
What's your definition of injustice? It probably differs from mine, I would class this as an injustice on so many level's.
people look for this freedom and it comes with a price
Some people look for that freedom. Many others pay the price. The children, in particular didn't sign up for this.
It’s not though, as the first 100 or so responses in the threads indicated. This shooting stands as an outlier among countless other mass shootings and school shootings in America and, people are talking about it - even if half the time only to complain that people are talking about it, how dare people talk about it, complaining how the thread is titled, etc.
If it were exactly the same as all the rest the media wouldn’t care, and I’d never hear about it, it would be a mere statistic like so many other killings this year alone. If it was exactly the same we’d have the exact same conversation, about guns, and we know where that leads: absolutely nowhere. But it’s not exactly the same, it’s a school shooting carried out by an adult (1) who is female at birth (reportedly) (2) and is trans (3) against a private school (4). The median school shooter is 16 years old, male, cis, and in over 90% of cases the school is public. Regardless of whether this has political implications or not for gun owners, the trans community, schools, teachers, or children, it’s certainly entitled to its own space to discuss outside of the homogeneity of mass /school shootings
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