Meant to reply to this earlier: is it just me that thought this could be Enoch Burke dressed up as a garda?
A bin on a street isn't private property to my knowledge so gardai are free to take whatever DNA from it that they wish. It doesn't necessarily mean that the source of the DNA lives in the house (could have been a guest or a passer by that threw something in the bin). So whilst the DNA from the bin might be admissable, it doesn't actually tell you who "owns" it. For this, you need to do a DNA test where you know who the sample is coming from. This, as I understand it, is why the couple were arrested the other day.
As for a tipoff from a relative, I'd say that the results of the 400 or so DNA samples taken from the general area were the tipoff as they provided a genetic target - e.g. baby John is related to samples #26, 159 and 472. Using that, you could do a genealogical match and Bob's your uncle (excuse the pun but it suits the DNA discussion!!!)
It wouldn’t surprise me if there are other babies who met the same fate. Baby John’s story is out there because his body washed up on the beach but there are probably other infant bodies that will never be found.
In fairness, it wasn't the only dead baby dumped in a bag in Kerry that year. Unless you want to repeat the mistake the Gardaí made.
Is it correct that they're not obliged to incriminate themselves or provide DNA ?
So essentially the gardai have nothing unless someone talks ?
Im assuming DNA from bins is inadmissible
I read a report that the tipoff came from the relative whose DNA was found in the trawl , could also be that someone has talked
There may have been no "wider family" involved covering up the tragedy, just a girl alone giving birth in a field like Joann Hayes or by a grotto like Anne Lovett. Post partum psychosis was as prevalent then as now but less understood.
In which case can you imagine the shock and consternation in that family with all this unfolding now.
Just watching virgin media news. The solicitor is very vocal allright.
If you didn’t live back then you would have no idea of the secrecy surrounding babies born to single girls. It’s possible the father of the baby never even knew she was pregnant. One night stands with drink involved would have been common. A girl might not have (or want to have) a relationship with the man. Many’s the man found out through DNA that he had a child he never knew about.
Yes he must like the limelight
Has he said they are the parents as the media seem to be saying they are
I remember older relatives talking about that, I had completely forgotten about it until I read your post.
What went on is bizarre.
Yes it may be that DNA points to just one of the two arrested. It’s possible that both were blissfully unaware of the relationship to Baby John. I have a feeling this is how it’s going to pan out. And the actual mother will remain unknown.
Yes and not all priests committed crimes. I remember one particular priest who used to bring us to football matches and collect us after hops to bring us home so that we'd be safe. He was a quiet gentleman and never harmed any child but he worried about us all. Pity they all weren't the same.
We don't know which of the two people arrested is realted to baby John. It may be the male person arrested who is the father (and the female has no involvement) and was completely unaware that the mother (not the woman arrested) was pregnant. You seem to make the assumption that they were fully aware of what happened but this may not be the case. There are a number of possibilities that could mean that one or both parents were not aware of what happened to the baby. We currently don't have the facts on this.
This murder has wrecked people's lives because peoiple made big assumptions (namely the pricks in the Murder Squad of AGS). Let's not make any more assumptions about guilt now!
What sick animal desecrates a baby's grave FFS?
Oh yes, "churching". You couldn't receive communion until after you'd been cleansed of your sin after chidbirth. This took place in a church and involved holding a candle while the priest said some prayers over you and sprinkled you with holy water.
Yet the RCC were happy enough to let it's members rape children. Anyway off topic for sure.
I think the adult children of the couple will never look at knitting needles in the same way again.
Always thinking they are lucky the knitting needle wasnt brought to them too.
Must be hard for them though. Heres these parents they grew up loving. Now they have the grave of a murdered brother down the road. Will they support their parents or mourn their lost brother. Maybe both, but it would be a real sickener for Baby John if they somehow blamed him for their parents going to jail, and i 100% agree there should be jail time here. Even for not coming forward when it happened. Though by the sounds of it there were quite a few people involved here over the years, so that all has to come out in the wash.
Just in addition to the above, whilst the RCC created a culture of sexual repression and so on, this has nothing to do with whatever happened to lead to the vile murder of a five day old baby. Any blame towards the RCC for this murder is misplaced.
When I and my siblings were born in the '70s, my mother (married) ran whatever prick in a dress turned up to her bedside to cleanse her from the sin of childbirth. I think it was because you couldn't become pregnant without having sex (oh sweet Jesus!).
Feckin mysoginistic gobsh1tes!
Disgraceful. The church has a lot to answer for.
I was born in the early 1950's and not only were babies who were not baptized not allowed to be buried in a Catholic cemetery, people who took their own lives could not be buried in them either. Shocking. When you went to a funeral you had to put your offerings into an envelope with your name on it and it was read out, your name and how much you gave, to the total embarrassment of the person. Same with the 'annual dues' to the parish. I remember the slagging people often got just for being poor and not being able to afford much. Many children had no shoes going to school and were slagged too. It was like a crime to be poor. At mass when the dues were read it was like ' John Sullivan, shopkeeper, 5 pounds and Tom Kelly, labourer, 2 shillings and sixpence. Awful times then at school. The rich kids sat at the front and got great attention from the teacher and the poor kids sat at the back and got feck all attention except a battering for not picking it up..
In fairness the solicitors is saying a lot which I would have thought is unusual. Staying very much in the media spotlight
Untrue. The headstone and grave were looked after by local undertaker, who was called when body was found. Did not include I forgive on replacement headstone
The baby was stabbed 28 times had his neck broken and was thrown in the sea. The person repsonsible for that deserves very much to be vilified. Think about that.
Joanne wouldn't have been vilified if the mother came forward
At least the mother or whoever may have taken baby John deserve to be vilified, more than Joanne anyway
The only thing I'm amazed at is, people sympathise with how Joanne was vilified and yet don't grasp why John's mother never came forward, think about that.
I reckon it is to do with the baby is now at peace, and is happy in heaven.
And when a murdered baby was washed up on a beach a few days later weren't able to join the dots?
Fair enough, if they are the baby's parent's and NOT the killers but then, I don't understand how they didnt realise that John was their baby and decided to keep quiet all those years. They must have very short memories. It boggles my mind how they never put two and two together?
Edited: Grammar
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