We don't know that either
People kill in anger or intoxication not necessarily hatred
I'll never understand the "I forgive" message on the tombstone.
Who thought that was a good idea?
Trying to gaslight people into thinking it's over. Let sleeping dogs lie n all that.
Again trying to distract from the unpalatable truth.
If the Gardai were competent Joanne Hayes and her family would never have suffered. It is the Gardai that are 100% responsible for that. They're the ones that came up with a bizarre narrative and coerced people in to confessing it,nobody else.
I was referring to wider family rather than the parents specifically. Somebody murdered the child, it's reportedly a Garda family, and the wider family withheld information all the years, information which would have helped Joanna Hayes plight.
I think O'Carroll is from Listowel and Courtney was from around Annascaul, I'm sure I read that somewhere so they had connections to Kerry.
I was referring to the local gardai. I know about O'Carroll but he was based on a Dublin team. I don't think he sought out hayes as a suspect because of local influence - this was simply just the incompetence of he and his team.
I thought it was supposed to be more that a baby doesn't know about hate or revenge and all they have is love?
It also seems they were a Garda family, and files went missing from a Garda station. It's possible they were actively involved in pointing the finger at Joanne Hayes. We really don't know this.
How much love was the baby shown?
The vandalising of the grave is just mind boggling abhorrent. Imagine having that much malice in your heart for a murdered baby.
Not quite. It was an evolving science and he came to police attention when it transpired that he had arranged for someone else to give a sample under his name. It was n Leicestershire and the extraction tech was developed at Leicester University. They did a public appeal for men to come and be tested but instead of keeping his head down he asked someone to do it for him and that was his downfall rather than his actual DNA.
There's also post partum psychosis, which I'm sure in 1984 wasn't understood at all.
Fair enough, if they are the baby's parent's and NOT the killers but then, I don't understand how they didnt realise that John was their baby and decided to keep quiet all those years. They must have very short memories. It boggles my mind how they never put two and two together?
Edited: Grammar
And when a murdered baby was washed up on a beach a few days later weren't able to join the dots?
I reckon it is to do with the baby is now at peace, and is happy in heaven.
The only thing I'm amazed at is, people sympathise with how Joanne was vilified and yet don't grasp why John's mother never came forward, think about that.
Joanne wouldn't have been vilified if the mother came forward
At least the mother or whoever may have taken baby John deserve to be vilified, more than Joanne anyway
The baby was stabbed 28 times had his neck broken and was thrown in the sea. The person repsonsible for that deserves very much to be vilified. Think about that.
Untrue. The headstone and grave were looked after by local undertaker, who was called when body was found. Did not include I forgive on replacement headstone
In fairness the solicitors is saying a lot which I would have thought is unusual. Staying very much in the media spotlight
I was born in the early 1950's and not only were babies who were not baptized not allowed to be buried in a Catholic cemetery, people who took their own lives could not be buried in them either. Shocking. When you went to a funeral you had to put your offerings into an envelope with your name on it and it was read out, your name and how much you gave, to the total embarrassment of the person. Same with the 'annual dues' to the parish. I remember the slagging people often got just for being poor and not being able to afford much. Many children had no shoes going to school and were slagged too. It was like a crime to be poor. At mass when the dues were read it was like ' John Sullivan, shopkeeper, 5 pounds and Tom Kelly, labourer, 2 shillings and sixpence. Awful times then at school. The rich kids sat at the front and got great attention from the teacher and the poor kids sat at the back and got feck all attention except a battering for not picking it up..
Disgraceful. The church has a lot to answer for.
When I and my siblings were born in the '70s, my mother (married) ran whatever prick in a dress turned up to her bedside to cleanse her from the sin of childbirth. I think it was because you couldn't become pregnant without having sex (oh sweet Jesus!).
Feckin mysoginistic gobsh1tes!
Just in addition to the above, whilst the RCC created a culture of sexual repression and so on, this has nothing to do with whatever happened to lead to the vile murder of a five day old baby. Any blame towards the RCC for this murder is misplaced.
I think the adult children of the couple will never look at knitting needles in the same way again.
Always thinking they are lucky the knitting needle wasnt brought to them too.
Must be hard for them though. Heres these parents they grew up loving. Now they have the grave of a murdered brother down the road. Will they support their parents or mourn their lost brother. Maybe both, but it would be a real sickener for Baby John if they somehow blamed him for their parents going to jail, and i 100% agree there should be jail time here. Even for not coming forward when it happened. Though by the sounds of it there were quite a few people involved here over the years, so that all has to come out in the wash.
Yet the RCC were happy enough to let it's members rape children. Anyway off topic for sure.
Oh yes, "churching". You couldn't receive communion until after you'd been cleansed of your sin after chidbirth. This took place in a church and involved holding a candle while the priest said some prayers over you and sprinkled you with holy water.
What sick animal desecrates a baby's grave FFS?
We don't know which of the two people arrested is realted to baby John. It may be the male person arrested who is the father (and the female has no involvement) and was completely unaware that the mother (not the woman arrested) was pregnant. You seem to make the assumption that they were fully aware of what happened but this may not be the case. There are a number of possibilities that could mean that one or both parents were not aware of what happened to the baby. We currently don't have the facts on this.
This murder has wrecked people's lives because peoiple made big assumptions (namely the pricks in the Murder Squad of AGS). Let's not make any more assumptions about guilt now!
Yes and not all priests committed crimes. I remember one particular priest who used to bring us to football matches and collect us after hops to bring us home so that we'd be safe. He was a quiet gentleman and never harmed any child but he worried about us all. Pity they all weren't the same.
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