There's also post partum psychosis, which I'm sure in 1984 wasn't understood at all.
Not quite. It was an evolving science and he came to police attention when it transpired that he had arranged for someone else to give a sample under his name. It was n Leicestershire and the extraction tech was developed at Leicester University. They did a public appeal for men to come and be tested but instead of keeping his head down he asked someone to do it for him and that was his downfall rather than his actual DNA.
The vandalising of the grave is just mind boggling abhorrent. Imagine having that much malice in your heart for a murdered baby.
How much love was the baby shown?
It also seems they were a Garda family, and files went missing from a Garda station. It's possible they were actively involved in pointing the finger at Joanne Hayes. We really don't know this.
I thought it was supposed to be more that a baby doesn't know about hate or revenge and all they have is love?
I was referring to the local gardai. I know about O'Carroll but he was based on a Dublin team. I don't think he sought out hayes as a suspect because of local influence - this was simply just the incompetence of he and his team.
I think O'Carroll is from Listowel and Courtney was from around Annascaul, I'm sure I read that somewhere so they had connections to Kerry.
I was referring to wider family rather than the parents specifically. Somebody murdered the child, it's reportedly a Garda family, and the wider family withheld information all the years, information which would have helped Joanna Hayes plight.
If the Gardai were competent Joanne Hayes and her family would never have suffered. It is the Gardai that are 100% responsible for that. They're the ones that came up with a bizarre narrative and coerced people in to confessing it,nobody else.
I'll never understand the "I forgive" message on the tombstone.
Who thought that was a good idea?
Trying to gaslight people into thinking it's over. Let sleeping dogs lie n all that.
Again trying to distract from the unpalatable truth.
We don't know that either
People kill in anger or intoxication not necessarily hatred
Neither Mr O’Connell nor his clients will be told when the DNA results are actually returned as this is “a logistical matter”, and up to the gardaí to divulge when it suits them.
He also described the man and woman’s house as being a “scene of crime investigation”.
Irish examiner.
To kill like that -a broken neck and 28 stab wounds- took a lot of hatred. Who could hate an innocent child so much?
Of course the gardai were at fault but this couple/family were also at fault.
They could have came out and said the baby was theirs and put a stop to the abuse Joanne suffered but they didnt. Joanne Hayes was put through hell, her life ruined - it ruined her work life, her familys life, her daughters life, her relationships with men - it ruined every aspect of her life. This couple/family sat back watching this unfold, watching this huge story, watching her shamed, abused and ridiculed knowing she had nothing to do with it.
You're inviting us to believe that such a chap screwed a local woman, got her pregnant and had no idea of her situation in the following nine months and took no interest at all in what happened to the baby afterwards?
Unlikely but possible to claim I suppose.. hardly marks him out to be a local pillar of the community worthy of respect?
The manner in which the child was killed and the subsequent vandalism of the grave has led me to think it's a case that goes beyond a child born outside of marriage.That this was either a case with a sad circumstances (incest/abuse) or the child was killed by a 3rd party who was angry at the "shame" the mother had brought on the family.
The fact I forgive was added to the headstone was in very poor taste.
Where exactly did the solicitor say the following ?
House turned into a crime scene
Suspects staying with friends / relatives
And Next-Generation sequencing also advanced;
From The Times article ;
"Using a new DNA technology called next-generation sequencing, scientists can now obtain DNA matches even if the samples are not from immediate relatives and it is believed that it was this technology that enabled FSI scientists to get a DNA match for Baby John.
This in turn led gardaí to focus their inquiries on relatives of the person who gave the voluntary match, which in turn led them to the two people they arrested, believing that one of them may be related to Baby John."
So it may well turn out that only one of the two people arrested is related to Baby John.
If the man arrested turns out to be the father and his current partner is no relation to Baby John, the father may well have known nothing of Baby John.
So it's quit possible the two people arrested have been living in total ignorance of any involvement.
You know if that is all your talking about sure go ahead but that is not what you are others are talking about your trying to be amateur detectives. We don't know anything else except 2 people were arrested and then released and a house is been looked at. As for there solicitor he seems to be loving the limelight and making statements left right and center rather then making sure he does what is best for his clients. As others have said while yes it maybe her baby we don't know her involvement yet
But who said I want to find out from "a few locals"
The last "local" that told me anything about it said that they were living in and arrested in a town that was not actually Cahirsiveen or in the immediate area
Am I to believe them.
If I sent out a WhatsApp message to all the "locals" I know and get multiple different answers which am I to believe.
I'll wait for something official if it ever comes.
It was reported earlier that her boyfriend at the time was a Garda.
It was not reported.
Someone here with a post count of 1 said it in a post around 2am.
People really need to cop on.
Absolutely agree with you on that point.
But they will know who murdered the infant if they didn't.
I'd wager there are certain posters on here and people in the locality have suggested it. Sure it was all but forgot when they could stitch up the innocent woman.
Dont get how you inferred I think that baby John's murder should be forgotten about. Point being made was the parents of baby John does not equal his murder/s by that fact.
Stop being silly - nobody suggested that!
So what do we do? Just forget about it like it never happened.
Well maybe ask a few locals and you will find out? Like I did.
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