The DUP refusing to let Sinn Fein have First Minister means a December Assembly Election. Will the numbers change in a fresh Election?
What parties seats are vulnerable or who might make gains in any constituencies ??
Firstly, the lack of people speaking the language is not a reason not to encourage it's use. Many people want to use it but feel that they cannot because it is not encouraged. Unfortunately it is like this in the Republic too.
As for the cost, given the large subvention provided by London to keep the lights on in NI, your concern over the cost for the use of a language is unfounded, especially when those most opposed to the language (despite agreeing to having an Irish language strategy) - the DUP - were the ones behind the massive fiasco of the Renewable Heat Incentive scandal.
Did an Irish Language Act have majority support or not?
I am not asking you what you think of the Irish language or the quest for an act, I am asking you: do you accept that a majority of democratic political parties supported this legislation?
Do you not think it is part of Adam's strategy (and I quote) "equality was a trojan horse that was going to break the bastards". The thin edge of the wedge etc? Do you not think, if SF get their way, unionists will have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc. It happened here south of the border, I would bet SF would want at least the same in N.I. as what we had here south of the border.
I'm not sure what your point is in terms of quoting Adams. I don't like the man but he was correct in that unionism is intolerant towards others (Catholics, gays, etc.) and by bringing in any form of equality would not be something the DUP would encourage. If I'm wrong, what have the DUP done to advance equality (without following on the coattails of others)?
As for Irish being mandatory in the Republic - this is because it is the first official language of the country with English being the second official language. I'm not sure if you know this.
As for Irish being mandatory in NI schools or the displaying of Irish revolutionaries, there is absolutely no evidence that this will be the case apart from your paranoia. Your assumtion that SF would want this does not equate to SF getting this. They may call for it but a change such has this has no mandate from the public so simply won't happen. However, the advancement of the Irish language does have a mandate and was signed up to by both governments and parties including the DUP.
I can't believe that I'm defending SF but you're anti-SF bias (which is clearly evident) is blinding you here.
Sinn Fein is the main driver in N.I. behind getting the UK government to waste hundreds of millions on the Irish language, when only 0.3% of people there use it as their daily language. Sinn Fein have a few Irish words ( and only a few) on their website home page. Most of the home page is in the English language. Alliance and SDLP have none. Yet they push Irish - at the rate payers expense - top of the sign on their Protestant neighbours. What does that tell you? Not good for community relations there.
'Equality' was very much part of nationalism and republicanism's strategy.
No, I don't think Irish will be compulsory.
the 1950's/60's in Ireland when these pictures adorned school walls (at the behest of FF/FG led Dept of ED BTW) are long gone.
There will be no compulsory Irish needed to access university, republicans/nationalists know only to well about deprivation of educational oppurtunities and have dealt with that in the submissions to the various forums discussing the legislation. There is NOTHING in the legislation forcing the use or knowledge of Irish on anyone.
Do you accept that a majority of political parties supported a standalone ILA and they have compromised on that? Do you accept that the DUP/TUV are STILL blocking the outworking s of that compromise?
Who owns it? The UK currently pays the bills in N. Ireland, so I guess the people of N.I and the rest of the UK own it, if anyone owns it. Only 0.3% of the population in N. Ireland use Irish daily as their first language, so why was Irish placed first and top in that sign in the predominately Protestant village if not to antoganize?
If I saw a sign in Irish language first in N.I. I would assume it was a very Republican village there....because of the way SF and others have politicised the language.
Again, The Alliance, The SDLP, The Greens. PBP all supported an Irish language act.
Like you have been told other stuff, you have been told 'SF hijacked' it.
They plainly didn't as an ILA had support right across politics and even in the EU and Dublin.
Somebody has to propose legislation. SF certainly did that and they had the support of a majority.
there is widespread, cross-party, majority support for a stand-alone Irish Language Act.
You are swallowing propaganda from anti-democracy parties without filtering it through the facts, again.
When you look at a bi or multi-lingual sign you gravitate to the language you understand on that sign. If you have travelled anywhere you would know that.
Where the Irish was on the sign is not the reason it was removed, it was removed because of cultural bigotry and a fantasy about 'owning' the wee country.
You say "SF did push for that legislation". Yes, we are aware that Republicanism - which in N.I. currently means mostly SF - hijacked the Irish language and the tricolour etc. To the extent most unionists - which in N.I. means many in the Protestant community - do not want anything to do with it. Not surprising, given SF's history.
I use the odd "cupla focail" the odd time, here south of the border, but I fully respect the right of the villagers in the predominant Protestant village in Co. Down to feel offended by signs starting off in the Irish language in their village. I would not like it if I were in their shoes. The thin edge of the wedge etc. If SF get their way, as happened here in the south, wait until the moderate unionists have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc
Well if the Irish forms are not used daily, why would you give the Irish version not only equal prominence on public signage but also in the example here, given priority of place? Answer me that?
For your information.
The campaign for an Irish Lanaguage act was begun by Conradh Na Gaelige and was supported by SF, The Alliance, SDLP, The Greens. And whenever asked, the leaders of the main parties here FG & FF etc supported an legislation as well.
The EU also supported legislative protections and encouraging of minority languages in it's European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages to which the British and Irish governments were signatories.
SF did push for that legislation through democratic channels and won a committment in St. Andrew's from the British government. Any attempt to introduce the legislation was blocked by the DUP and UUP/TUV etc.
After the impasse over it, SF and all the campaigners for a standalone act compromised on it and accepted a lesser deal than that which had been agreed.
They 'compromised', and even then the DUP continue to block the roll out of the provisions of that agreement.
Of course the Shinners are the bad guys here with some.
Who said that 'using it daily' was the bar?
Look at the agreed legislation that is the law of the land.
I couldn't give a crap about many things, would I violently resist people doing what is within the law? No, I wouldn't and neither should anyone else doing it be condoned or excused.
Certainly not on religious grounds nor on cultural bigotry and stubborn grounds.
I agree - it's sad the way that the Irish language has been used for political purposes, both North and South.
Yes.. so can you interpret this. Looks as if 60% identify as 'British or NI' and 25% as 'Irish'.
What proportion of these would daily use the Irish form of the name? Probably low enough in the first combined demographic. But what of the latter who identify as 'Irish' - how many of them use the Irish form or give a hoot about it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Irishman and proud of it. I like the bit of gaeilge and interested in original ways with names. But I'm also honest enough to know the large proportion of my family, friends and neighbours couldn't give a crap about such matters. That's just how it is.
The Alliance, SDLP and others support Irish language legislation, not just SF.
Which makes your 'language of Sinn Fein' comment ludicrious.
The erection of this particular sign was supported by majority decision at the council, where SF doe not have a majority.
Two questions now.
Why single out SF as being responsible for the legislation.
And WHAT has religion got to do with it, why are you sectarianising it?
If a village in N.I. is predominately Protestant in N.I., you can safely assume that residents of same will not be adapting the language of Sinn Fein or flying tricolours, and will not appreciate a new sign erected with the first words "Failte Go...
That's the reality. Erecting multi-lingual signage, at cost to the rate-payer in such areas is going to cause tension. How little you really know about N.I. if you do not understand that.
Do not forget only 0.3% of the people in N.I. speak Irish as their first language. It is a pity SF have politicised it. If they did not it may be more popular.
What difference does the religion of the residents of a place make?
The Protestant religion has not taken a position on the Irish language.
You are taking a sectarian position here, and siding with sectarian bigots who wish to make religion an issue, which is something we all want to move away from.
P.S. While everyone 'understood' the sign previously, nobody visiting the area 'understood' what the original name and how it was arived at was.
What is wrong with enriching the heritage and culture by displaying that info?
An excellent example. Even though most if not all signage in N.Ireland was English language only, and everyone understood it., at the insistence of SF Irish started to appears as the second language in mixed area, or areas with a nationalist majority. eg Fermanagh and Tyrone. OK, can live with that in the interests of compromise.
However, NOW it is the first language on the sign in a predominately Protestant village in Co. Down.
This despite the fact only 0.3% of the people in N.I. speak Irish as their first language. And rates gone up 8% in some area, partly to help pay for such new signage.
Adams was quite clever, did he not say "equality was a trojan horse that was going to break the bastards". SF are the ones who politicised the language. If the moderate unionists think Irish signs are bad wait until they have to do compulsory Irish in school, look at pictures of Irish "revolutionaries heroes" on their walls in their classrooms (1916 in my time, will be Bobby Sands and Co for future generations if SF get their way), need Irish to get in to certain universities, get a government job etc - as happened here.;) And if anyone objects, first they will be called "bigots". Then other things happen.
Isn't it just! Life in Fermanagh has never been the same! 😁
You don't 'weaponise' language rights by agreeing in democratic international and local forums a way forward on implementing rights. This kind of behaviour in the pictures below 'weaponises and politicises' it though.
People want the native Irish words there to enhance and enrich the areas in which they live, the people who engage in the behaviour below have no care for resident or place. It is all about 'ownership'. They'd rather burn down the place they live in than relinquish the fantasy that they 'own' it.
The demographics of what is claimed to be a 'Protestant village' which is the 'DUP's own area'.
That is some real hateful threatening signage right there, those fenian monsters 😅
Once it's proportional to actual local usage. Local usage is everything. If 99% of local citizens have a certain way with spelling where they live, then signage should reflect this. Yes the 1% should be catered for but not necessarily with equal prominence.
What we see in the south, is that the state has largely failed in persuading the population to embrace Irish in an everyday way since the foundation of the state. But having given up on persuasion, the language lobby have now enforced their view through application of the aspirational constitution and legislation.
OWC/our wee country is doing a lot of work there Francis.
Aren't you one who decries the north not moving on and finidng ways to live with one another and to be inclusive?
How much will tagging areas as belonging to the DUP ('in their own area') help with that?
When, for that matter has Protestantism said it cannot have Irish about the place?
It never did, it is bigots who claim that position for Protestantism.
Agreed. Biligual signage is inclusive for all and it does reflect the history of the land.
These signs have been up for years now.
There has been no complaints of anyone either consciously or unconsciously losing their Irish or British identity as a result.
Most people enjoy the diversity and inclusivity they display though.
Compromise is key, as always. And respect for all opinions.
As you say, there is no war to be won, or fought, if we dont create one in the first place.
There is no reason why opposing views cant be harmonious and respectful of one another.
Not Francie here and I dont mean to cause offence to anyone. Apologies If I have downcow.
But I would clearly state that Northern Ireland is both British and Irish & that it was Irish alone a long time before it was ever British.
I am not religious in any way, I have no skin in that game.
Just a simple man that advocates logic.
It is Sinn Fein pressure / Sinn Fein dominated Councils who are erecting Irish language signage. Tensions are raised, the same as if a unionist dominated council put a scots gaelic sign on the falls road.
There is existing signage which is understood by all. The English language is perfectly acceptable to the residents of the predominately Protestant village in Co. Down. Most Protestants / unionists do not want money wasted on Irish language signs. Show me where the DUP said they would have to suffer the sight of these signs in their own area?
Another headline recently was " Unionists slam Sinn Fein proposal to erect Irish over 600 streets one week after rates hike of 7.99%".
In NI according to the 2021 census 0.3% of the people speak Irish as their first language. I would say there are a number of nationalists as well as a large number of unionists who see Irish Language act as a waste of money given how few people speak it natively, and think there are better ways to spend the money even on those who want to learn the language.
Irish language has been politicised for a long time. I seem to remember - but could be wrong - that many years ago Gerry Adams said "equality was a trojan horse that was going to break the bastards". Think statements like that from prominent representatives have helped to create a stigma about the irish language within unionism. As someone else said "Interpretation of that is small victories (or equalities) that will eventually lead to the bigger goal - Unity or an Irish dominated society. So whilst unsaid, forcing "Unionist territories" being renamed with Irish Street signs might be seen as a victory if done so politically where they are then protected by the governing body and unionists are powerless to react."
Think of it. 0.3% of the people in N.I. speak Irish as their first language. And yet there are rates hike of 7.99% in some areas to help erect Irish language signs.
Downcow, Continue to resist a UI, because otherwise you and your community will be out. Never underestimate the Republican propaganda machine, and how effective it is in brainwashing people. As I said earlier today but you are probably working and have not been on since, before you know it your kids and grandkids would need Irish to pass their secondary school education and to get in to Irish universities like UCD, UCG, UCC, to to get a government job. It happened here ( south of the border).
Downcow, take no notice of Francie and his casual dismissal of anglicised placenames.
Firstly, the name of any place belongs to the people of that place and what they call it is correct. How they spell it when they give out their postal address is the correct written form.
So whatever way the people who have lived all their lives in Tobermore, say it or write is correct. And should always be respected. Where other versions are give for clarification, they should be by way of explaining the name and of less prominence on public signage.
As for your query on pronunciation, Tobar would normally be said like 'tubber' as in Tubbercurry. So phonetically Tobar Mór would usually be said more like 'Tubber-more' in southern parts of Ireland. But Irish language pronunciation is tricky and there are curious dialect differences in true Ulster Irish. You'd only get these from native speakers though, not the ones who've learnt standard official Irish.
Back to the point about the Irish language signs at the predominately Protestant village: its the thin edge of the wedge if Sinn Fein get their way. As someone else said, if SF get their way fully the Protestants will have to face the choice of moving to Britain or being assimilated into the Irish Republic. If they think Irish signs are bad wait until they have to do compulsory Irish in school, go to certain universities, get a government job etc - as happened here..
You're not actually answering my questions here but merely speculating on something someone else said might happen.
