Baby John's parents are not responsible for the incompetence of the Gardai. The Gardai are going to have to own the Joanne Hayes f**k up although yes the parents could have helped ending that Gardai f**k up but it was the gardai that invented a completely bizarre narrative with no evidence hence why the state had to compensated her for.
The father of Joanne's child was not guilty of anything. It is not illegal to have an affair. Joanne was not guilty of anything either apart from not reporting the birth and death of her child which died of natural causes and was buried on the family farm.
There was two crimes here. One the murdering of baby John which is unsolved and two the coercion of JH and her family by the gardai which they have admitted to and settled with her. The person/s for crime one or not responsible for crime two.
Yes, led by Garda Gerry O'Carroll.
Same eejit that suggested Hayes had sex with two men in the same hour, gave birth to twins, buried one that died in childbirth on the family farm and killed the second one and drove 80km to dump it.
He has never denied heavy tactics and has never apologised either.
Thanks see that now
Stop clutching at straws.
Joanne Hayes did not give birth to Baby John. This was ruled out 29 years ago when the body of Joanne's baby was found on the Hayes' farm and when the blood tests of Baby John were not a match with Joanne, Jeremiah or Shane.
If it's proved that this couple is the parents of baby John then they deserve to be sentenced for remaining silent knowing what Joanne Hayes and the Hayes was being put through. Joanne Hayes life was ruined by this.
Jerry O Carroll should end his life in jail for his part in all of this.
I was only a small child in 1984 so I have no memory of it. I've been reading up on this shocking story. Am I right in saying that Jeremiah Locke ( a married man) the father of Joanne's baby and child had nothing happen him and doesn't seem to have been looked down on at all. It says alot for the society of Ireland in the early 80s! No questions it seems were asked of him at all!
Whatever happened to Locke - did his wife stick by him? Was his life ruined in the same way Joanne Hayes's life was ruined
It is strange that they confessed. They're not simpletons and had legal representation. The available DNA evidence, I know, seems to rule out the possibility that Joanne Hayes could have given birth to Baby John but is this entirely conclusive or has it been established that the arrested couple are in fact the parents? A further analysis of DNA evidence has yet to take place, I understand.
Are you for real???
Have a read up on the case, Joanne and her family were threatened.
Why else would she have admitted to murdering a baby that wasn't hers?
Why else would she and her family have received a state apology and a large financial settlement?
Was it all for the craic?
Yes, there was.
What evidence is there of this "coercion"? Was there a heavy gang beating the admission out of Hayes and her family? They signed a confession.
You had the inside track on the Kilkenny GAA star who was accused of fraud and you also had a insider knowledge of the Burkes of Castlebar. I wonder if I was bothered to trawl through your posting history would I find any more examples of your improbable connections to the news stories of the day...
The Mail wouldn’t lie, surely?
Don’t believe newspaper and was this a red top paper, how would these samples stand up in a court of law,
Is this really the case?
I'm not sure if obtaining DNA that way is even admissible in Ireland.
It was famously used to catch the Golden State Killer in the us a few years ago but even in parts of the US it is not allowed.
My own guess on how they came to identify the two was because they compared the 400 odd voluntary samples they took with that of Baby John and without a exact match they were able to narrow it down to an extended family and then age profiles within that extended famy lead them to the man in his 60s and woman in her 40s.
I was thinking there might be adult children now. That could be very traumatic.
One paper reported this morning that Gardai got DNA samples from their bins.
The first one is near impossible to prosecute now without a confession. The second one, conceivably only the mother of the child could be prosecuted as she is the only person that we can conclusively state knew about the baby.
I can't see the DPP bringing a prosecution under those grounds. After all that's happened with this case, it would be as big a political mistake as it was for the AG to take on X
JP Liz V1, and your point is ???
Does anyone know if people there were obliged to give the DNA sample which led to the arrest?
Kerry solicitor Padraig O’Connell, who is representing the two people arrested, warned against “people jumping to conclusions”.
Speaking on RTE Radio One he said: “My concern is that, effectively, people are jumping to conclusions.
“That because somebody’s arrested, that they’re automatically in the frame for a very heinous crime.
“That is not so they are totally innocent. They must be presumed innocent.
“They have constitution natural justice protections, and due process must be undergone. So as far as I’m concerned, they’re totally innocent.
“They proclaim their innocence. And they’ve made absolutely no admissions whatsoever of criminality.”
The man and woman are understood to be a couple with adult children.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/solicitor-two-people-arrested-over-29550933
You always know local friends
That is true.
There was an incredibly negative view of female sexuality, only a slut would enjoy sex. "Good" women thought of Ireland when having sex with their husbands and didn't have sex before marriage.
In that environment women who "fell" were ostracised and shamed, and if another woman dared to stick up for them they would have endured the same.
The father's got away "scot free" because they were the poor innocent victims beguiled by whores. That was the reality, and it wasn't that long ago.
Attitudes have changed, but it was the reality of the time.
Editing to add - that view was shared by both some men and some women.
You couldn't care less?
That's odd, seeing as it was you who took issue with my post about a priest preaching about the parents today, but grand so. It looked like you cared.
If you think the catholic church had 0% influence in what was going on back then, then you're deluding yourself.
But I'll leave it there.
So, the parent was told by whoever was present at the birth, that their child was stillborn or adopted and it was taken away, 3 days later a 3 day old baby was found stabbed to death on a local beach, and the first inkling they had was 40 years later when they got a knock on the door?
The most bizarre thing about it was that while society condemned the single mother, the father of the baby got away scot free. And it wasn’t just men sticking up for men, it was the way things were. Women didn’t rally together to expose them either. And then they got on with their lives with no consequences, no stigma, no accountability.
That is a possible scenario. But given that the case was the talk of the country back in 1984, the natural parents couldn't have been under any illusions that they might somehow be involved in it and that it was their child. And to then witness another innocent family dragged through the mire, whilst keeping schtum would be damning.
I think more may well come out of this yet though and we'll see the shoddy edifice of deceit brought down and exposed.
Yes, as we saw during covid, nothing has changed, these people are still all too common. As has been said, these intense pressures do not justify what happened. The climate of fear provided an environment for a successful cover up but a person did that terrible thing that most could never do.
The Catholic Church had it's role to play in the societal constraints of the times but the vindictiveness, spitefulness and nastiness abundant in a large proportion of Irish society wallowed in using these constraints as a way to demoralize, criticize and point the finger at those who went outside the societal norms and these people are worse than the church.
Withholding information about a crime?
I mean, plenty of people are charged with accessory to murder or withholding info - it is not like this case got no coverage over the last 40 years. If they were "living in fear", surely that would have ended once the death of the grandfather occurred, which was a good few years ago if what is reported is accurate.
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