Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
The feeling that I got was that Munster didn't train with sufficient intensity during the six nations break.
There was something like a dozen knock ons that led to scrums. People complain that the Munster scrum was weak. I'd say that the weakness was more on the Glasgow put in. The Munster scrum was reasonable on their own put in. I'd say fixing their handling would be easier than improving that scrum.
In the wake of that Casey coming on with a bit of niggle seemed to lift the intensity of the entire team.
Kleyn was what he usually is. A powerful player thats a little slow and not athletic enough.
“Didn't just lose to be fair, their opponents were out of sight in the first half, in Thomond Park.
And Munster make a bit of a habit of things like that.”
This is simply not true, tho.
Since the SA game, which was a bit of turning point in our season, we had lost 3 games, all by 1 score; once vs Leinster and twice vs Toulouse.
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didn’t see the game but going by the scoreline. It seems that the defence which was really excellent in the early part of the season. Has now started to struggle. Is that personnel issue or is it just analysis has caught up with it?
Munster should have kept Ben Healy and shipped off Carbery....
I'd have two points on this.
The first is Antoine Frisch. His organisation on D, and relationship with Fekitoa, is a huge aspect of the defense when it has been performing at its best.
The second is Antoine Frisch. Offense is the best defense. He first allows Fekitoa to play 12 and make more space on first phase carries. His offloading and decision making have also been key, both in terms of unlocking defenses and securing possession.
Difficult to know, and we probably won’t have our answer until next week at least. But I worry it’s more the latter than the former.
The defensive issues have started to surface since the Benetton game. Both that, and the Scarlets game, we were cut up thru the middle a number of times. (That does coincide with the start of the 6 Nations tho).
To me, the first half 2nite absolutely seemed like a team who had done their homework on us. That, coupled with our ruck inaccuracy in the 1st half and really, there was no coming back. For me, both Carbery and Patterson were really poor defensively 2nite. Having a 9/10 of Casey/Patterson and Carbery could be an issue going forward.
Munster wanted to keep both
I hope they bin the Crowley at 12 selections. Give him the 10 Jersey. Joey is consistently inconsistent.
Also signing a hooker has to be the no.1 priority surely. Would love a loose head also but hooker no.1
Ok...let me put it this way then....Munster should have started Ben Healy more than Joey Carbery...
Some of my thoughts on that:
Not blaming Joey Carbery whatsoever for tonight's result, it was an overall underperformance across the park imo.
However I agree with a lot of the previous posters.
Let Crowley have at it at 10 now.
Carbery is not going to improve Munster rugby's overall performance by him being at 10.
It's done now. It's a failed experiment.
Accept that it didn't work, and don't push it any further.
We need another center. If Frisch gets injured we are reduced to either playing someone out of position or playing someone who is barely up to it at the professional level. Nankivell replacing Feikitoa will hopefully be an improvement but it’s not enough, Rory Scannell and Goggin are way off the pace at this level. Beyond that we have a 1st year academy winger we are trying to convert to a center and that’s it (Morris will be gone next year).
Ya I agree we need a 12. But doesn't matter who is in the centre if you have no set piece. And at the moment our set piece seems to rest on Niall scannells shoulders alone.
Think Patterson needs to learn to slow things down at times, his slider is too much to the chaos side of controlled chaos. No better man than Murray to learn from in that regards.
Think Carbery probably still offers more control and a fuller play book than Crowley but he's such a liability one on one defence that I wonder is it playing into a wider lack of confidence and players not quite trusting him.
The fightback was laudable but that first half would concern you to be honest. POM and Beirne will shore up the setpiece a good bit mind.
POM will definitely help, but Beirne is out for the foreseeable I think?
I’ve been pretty positive since the SA game, but the defence is looking very porous at the moment, really need to see an improvement there over the coming weeks or it could risk taking the sheen off what has been a broadly positive season.
My worry as the first half drew to a close is that big turnovers by teams you'll shortly be seeing in knockouts can be momentum breaking. (I appreciate Munster unlikely to face Glasgow but they're another one of the teams that are up there).
Munster should be looking to peak, that was not a peak performance.
Re Beirne, I thought he was going to be back for business, that's a loss - not replaceable on the big days.
Fineen Wycherley is too small to play 2nd row at this level. We need to play Ahern and Edogbo next week or we'll be beaten up in South Africa
Kendellan should take JODs place on the bench with POM returning to 6 with Hodnet and Coombes beside him
It's a huge week. The first actual knock out weekend coming up. We cannot repeat the errors we made yesterday.
Supposedly there is 1 signed, a very nuts and bolts player, nothing to get too excited about.
I think that new lad RG? Might be alright, I'd throw him into the 2nd next week
Only got to watch this game this morning.
Bizarre how Munster’s defensive systems have collapsed over a couple of games - between the second half against Scarlets and the first half today they leaked 9 tries.
Set piece was a calamity yesterday, especially in first 50 mins. Kilcoyne has had a few really bad scrummaging days this season and was miles off the pace yesterday.
Don’t get the Kleyn criticism, he was visible and physical for me. He did what he does largely. Back row were outplayed, and half backs didn’t bring any composure or control.
I was impressed by Nash - he’s got more pace than I thought he had and was really busy looking to get involved throughout.
Crowley needs to be backed at 10 now. He’s not a 12, and Carbery is not playing well. Just back the guy who looks like he’ll be your future there.
Carbery has had his day in the sun. Need to transition to Crowley now the same way as the transition from Murray to Casey.
No disrespect but the team has to have a stronger out half who can point the finger,shout at lads, and, like Roy Keane or Sexton put the foot on the ball and say “let’s win this motherf’n game men “
Delahunt from Connacht is the rumour up here
Yup, seems he was going to pack it in but Munster came knocking.
We’re in huge trouble at 10 next year unless carbery discovers form ….Crowley could and maby will be a superstar at 10 ….a few good cameos but we don’t know if he can control a game from there ….talks of jake Flannery comming back but he has done nothing in Ulster …….been a fan of carbery all along but just not going for him for a while ……Ben Healy is going to be a massive loss
I doubt he’s fit enough to play 60+ minutes.
Joey is just not a good out half. He has about a handful of good displays since he came to Munster. He's certainly not a player to bet your house on.
That's extremely underwhelming if true.
Placeholder till the young hookers come through though surely.
I reckon he's a good pick up. He's as good as Scannell and better than Barron.
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