Now rather than question in private, they shout to the world that they have 2 people being questioned for murder and then release them 24 hours later making sure all the local know who they are.
I'm sure bringing people to a Garda station to be questioned about a murder rather than being questioned "in private" as you say is standard procedure. And it's for the benefit of all parties.
Everybody knows young mothers were clamouring at the gates to be allowed to live a life of luxury in the mother and baby homes. Kindly, nurturing nuns took them in and cared for them, sheltering them from the cruel world and empowering them to become happy, independent women. The children were cherished, spoiled even, and were reminded every day that they were little blessings straight from heaven.
It's true. I swear. The tooth fairy told me, and she wouldn't lie, would she?
It’s highly improbable that anyone involved is not retired or dead
I hope fired and prosecuted
And kept quiet all these years even if not the murderers
According to the Indo. they are.
Or appear to be based on DNA and whether you believe a journalist etc.
Have those horrible/ disgusting police men ,who got forced confessions from the Hayes family ever been punished?
Are they the parents?
Joanne Hayes has absolutely nothing to do with baby John, and never did.
Isn't under investigation for a crime, and hasn't been accused by gardai of any crime relaying to the birth and death of her baby.
Yet still people are shoehorning what happened to her into someone else's crime.
My cousin’s daughter sadly had a stillbirth some years ago, she is buried in a grave in a cemetery Dublin, where other family members will go when their time comes.
This is the most important post I think I have ever read on this site as it is clear evidence of time travel from 1954
Tell you what, you figure out the difference between a stillbirth and a premature birth, and come back to us.
Then we’ll discuss where to place O’Connells Pharmacy plastic bags in the rich Kerry tradition of al fresco infant burial practices.
When I say “we”, I mean you.
But what has this to do with baby John who was murdered?
Joanne Hayes has been cleared of any wrong doing no matter how many times you are going to drag up her past ,a baby who was not babtised could be buried in a holy cemetary .In some parishes there was a place called a 'killeen' where these babies were buried and other instances these babies were buried in farm land.
What is done today with premature babies /stillbirths?
Its less about me making 2 + 2 = 5, and more about people trying to squeeze 2 + 3 into 4.
I'll let people make what they want out of your statement that it wouldn't be remarkable for Kerry people to put a dead or stillborn corpse in a white plastic bag and leave in a pool of water on their land.
We like our reality unsanitised, sure we do.
Looks like the gardai have learnt nothing over the years.
It took them THIRTY FOUR YEARS to accept they were wrong and make an apology to Joanne Hayes. Even then Garda Gerry O'Carroll would still not apologise himself and still touted the theory that she could have given birth to twins that had different fathers - yes he really did come up with that theory and still held it until 2018
Despicable and disgusting from an garda siochana.
And they wonder why they are so disliked?
Short audio clip, less than 2 minutes, of part of the Late Late interview here. She wasn't "dragged on" but says she came on as she wanted to thank all those who had supported her. She highlights how unprepared her own counsel were for the Tribunal and the anti-women tone of the proceedings. https://soundcloud.com/rte-radio-1/joanne-hayes-late-late-show-1985
Whoever murdered Baby John did so in a fit of manic rage, to put an end to an u wanted new life would “only” have required oxygen deprivation or central nervous system suppression in a relatively less violent way, but stabbing 28 times indicates a scenario of great anger at the birth, involving hatred, mental illness of intoxication or any combination thereof. Could have been committed by a man or by a woman, including the mother, especially had she suffered from the rarely discussed phenomenon of puerperal psychosis which causes delusions & hallucinations. In the latter event it is possible that a loving partner / family may have wanted it kept quiet as likely such illness would be confined to the situation of post pregnancy.
But the scenario whereby the grave has been desecrated in intervening years is puzzling, where or not connected with original offence. Somebody became or remained angry at Baby John being memorialised.
Young teenager? Joanne Hayes was approaching 25 and in her third pregnancy when her son was born dead in a field late at night. She had a living young daughter who was being raised by her in the family home and had also had a miscarriage. The way the Gardai behaved and the way the court/Tribunal was conducted was absolutely foul and the 2.5 million she and the family received in compensation could barely touch the horrors she and they were put through. However, portraying her as a "young teenager" instead of a woman making choices serves no purpose.
What?!?
There was an rte investigative program on not so long ago "Confessions of ..." It was maybe 4 or 6 episodes long, it featured this case and other cases where innocent people were beaten into confessing.... While all cases were sad , there was a murder where a group of teenage boys were framed their lives absolutely ruined afterwards.
Just awful to think that a group of adults (seemingly) hounded a young teenager knowing that she was totally innocent, endless interviews and a court case, I don't know how she or her family went through it and survived. It must have been a nightmare for them. There must have been cases where innocent people were locked up as scapegoats after been similarly stitched up , sickening.
RTE have a clip of it, if you look at the links posted when the man was released today you'll see it.
Was Joanne Hayes dragged on to the Late Late Show?
I was trying to find a clip on YouTube with no luck. Was curious to see if Uncle Gaybo treated her as nastily as Annie Murphy.
Maybe I dreamed the interview happened or maybe as part of the State settlement it has been removed.
Unmarried mothers were not incarcerated and there was not forced adoption. Hotblack Desiato, you really should know better than that. The mother and baby homes facilities mothers keeping their children, particularly the Regina Coeli home. I can recommend you some historical sources to read. Adoption was sometimes coerced by the community and family, but not forced. By the late 1950s adoption was a regulated process, by the 1960s but homes were being closed and remaining ones were modernised. Standards became quite quite good, for example, in some boyfriends could visit. Medical care was superior than in rural areas. In 1966 two British social workers visited, one (M J Farrah) of whom published an account in social journal and said
'post-natal stay was ‘governed by circumstances, and not by rigid rules’., ‘atmosphere of freedom and friendliness, and the girls appear to be as happy and relaxed as they are in our Homes over here’
"great efforts have been and are being made to divide the large dormitories, and nurseries into smaller units. Where alterations have been completed, and new wings added, the decoration is light and all furnishing modern. Gone are the long tables in the dining rooms, and in their place small tables with three or four places at each. We saw television rooms which could be cleared to make a dance hall, or divided up into two or three smaller recreation rooms by the use of sliding partitions."
BTW your aunt was a sensible woman by all accounts.
I'm class of 95 and girls in my year were made leave our school if they got pregnant. Also Dublin.
The fact is that if it hadn't been for blood group testing (all there was in the 80s) proving that she wasn't the mother of the second baby Joanne Hayes would certainly have been charged with murder and probably convicted - for a crime she couldn't possibly have committed but the Gardai had scapegoated her for.
There's no evidence that JH committed a crime no matter how much you add 2+2 together to come up with 5.
And don't we all know that if there was even a hint that she had actually committed a crime that she would have been hawled through the courts about it to much glee from some quarters.
Burying dead newborn babies on family land back then used to happen. Not as frequently as it had in the past admittedly but it still happened. There's nothing shocking about this unsanitised reality although it may be a bit unpalatable and hard to process for the eyes and ears of people nowadays.
The crime being investigated here is baby John's murder. Nothing else.
No outrage at all, just drawing attention to things like people using the terms “stillbirth” and “ died of natural causes” as if they were interchangeable.
The actions of the Gardaí at the time keep coming back into this sorry tale. Maybe there'll be another tribunal yet to ascertain truths and rule out suspicions.
According to Virgin News, it appears the two people were arrested at the same address and have been a couple since the early 80's
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