while looking at the threads on Boards would make you think otherwise.... the vast majority of refugees from Ukraine are women and children, with any male refugees being ineligible or on concession not to fight... working with some families, they can't wait to get back to their male relations who are fighting and back to their own home to rebuild their lives...
it's better than refugee status in a lot of EU countries
Ukrainian identity has been forged & hardened through turmoil. They include many proud and patriotic people who will return both for family reasons but also to help rebuild their state. That's what you or I would do, wouldn't we???
First they need to drive the Russians back off their territory to pre 2014 borders. And maybe we'll take a leaf out of other European states and start cracking down on resident Russians here.
For sure.
They will deserve unlimited support, gratitude & praise for eradicating the Westward creep of "red rot".
I think you may be underestimating the opportunities the rebuilding of a post-war nation offers it's citizens. Many fortunes were made in the reconstruction of Europe post WW2 and the ranks of the middle classes swelled. There's billions in aid already pledged for the reconstruction of Ukraine and I'm sure Ukrainians will want to ensure as much of that money stays in Ukraine as possible.
In the ag machinery trade in Ireland. Big tankers or dung spreaders. The one's with the massive tyres were advertised as having "russian" tyres. I have one myself and guess where the tyres were made. MADE IN UKRAINE.
The russian state has been piggy backing on the industrial machine that is/was Ukraine. It's why this loss is going to be catastrophic for russia for a long time to come. They had a state that made the stuff in factories next door and was reliant on the import of Ukrainian tech and industry. Now the relationship has been soured for a very long time to come.
Unfortunately a swelling of a middle class will be far less likely in today's world. People will make fortunes but they won't be the ones getting their hands dirty.
Ukraine were also a source of parts and maintenance for some of the current Russian airforce aircraft... which is quite funny
edit: I'm almost certain Ukraine had input too on maintenance of certain Nuclear missiles
I find it interesting that your posts have gone from being dismissive of Ukraine's potential to regain land and win the war, to today starting to question how many Ukrainian refugees will go back home should they win.
It certainly tells the direction things appear to be going in the last 24-48 hours that most are anticipating a Ukrainian counter-offensive soon and with that the retaking of a significant portion of land.
it's copium
When they drive the Russians back to the sea you can quote this post and say "I told you so"
Until then I wont hold my breath
I think it shows that their so call hatred toward the west runs thin with many, if at all. She didn't lick that opinion up off the ground, those anti-war views made their way into her head through others and the State intimidation that came about afterwards only serves to solidify those views. Depressing to see the response by the State but good to see a potential spark of dissent all the same.
Far more likely to see a situation similar to post WW2 germany increasingly reliant in imported labour (mostly Turkish) to rebuild the country and prop up the population.
If EU membership and a huge inflow of funds to the Baltic States couldnt reverse their population decline due to emigration, I cant see how Ukraine could reverse such a drastic outflow of people for the promise of hard graft rebuilding your country. Its a nice ideal that peoples patriotism and duty and sense of home would draw them back, but if they have leave to remain & work in higher paying western nations, why would you leave?
Chemical, biological and some sort/form of nuclear weapons are always a possibility…..! The short ass, paranoid, demented and insane tsar is capable of using them..!!
One of my wife's colleagues husband, who has been living in Ireland for almost 2 decades just moved back to Ukraine. Her parents who fled here in the early days of the war have just returned.
Ironically, in trying to eradicate Ukraine, Putin's Russia have done the exact opposite: they've engendered the Ukrainians with a level of patriotism most countries haven't seen since the second world war.
I'm sure some of the refugees may stay, particularly war widows and their children but the Ukrainians are a hard-working and well-educated people, those that stay will be of benefit to the countries they come to call home. (Interestingly, those I know who visited Ukraine before the war describe it as being quite similar to Ireland just before the Celtic Tiger. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Ukrainian economy become a Slavic Tiger off the back of the rebuilding program).
South Africa? Don't think the Russians are going to be too crazy about fleeing to a country that cant keep the lights on and is following zimbabwe into a death spiral. Even if Russia dies on its arse whatever replaces it is not going to hand over anyone to the ICC
There were roughly 15 million German men removed from the workforce post-ww2 (5 million dead, 10 million pow). You're surely not comparing the recovery of Germany after a world war, split east & west, population decimated and facing economic sanctions, to that of Ukraine who's population and infrastructure losses aren't even close to comparable?
Are you just throwing things out arguing for argument sake or what?
havnt been to Ukraine myself yet but a few of my mates have and they all say its a beautiful country and met some fantastic people,very hard working but at the same time know how to have a bit of fun and as soon as the chief fookhead in the kremlin pulls his troops out i dont see why the Ukrainians themselves,with it has to be said a lot of help,wont rebuild their country even better and id be fairly sure theyd all want to be part of that..
The point I took from the article that the poor father and daughter are in a minority. All the apparatus of the state is focused on indoctrinating school kids and stamping out what little dissent there is. Future looks bleak when impressionable kids are brain washed
There will be a long list of us posting I told you so .
I see Medvedev threatening nuclear weapons against Ukraine if they retake Crimea,
Retake suggests that they are afraid it's actually happening.
Crimea 2023 is on
I'm going to hazard a guess that when the war is over and rebuilding Ukraine is under way, they will have a significant number of tourists visiting. This war has shown the horrors inflicted upon Ukraine, but it has also highlighted how beautiful their county is and how amazing their people and culture are.
seeing EU citizens move freely around the EU ? shock horror...
Unlike EU citizens, Ukrainians will be asylum seekers, subject to limited right to work status (reviewed yearly) and 3 yearly right to remain reviews ...
Do you know what's involved in employing an asylum seeker? a very co-operative employer, a lot of which don't like doing...
I know, I know !!! Because Russia's a shitbox ?
I think you're right there. Mrs Sleepy has already decided that whenever Ukraine is ready to host tourists again, we're going. I get no say in the matter! 🤣
Came across this on Twitter today, incredibly prescient considering it's from 2014:
Dimitri doing his best to not get thrown out a window
I remember visiting a museum in Canberra about 15 years ago. There was a wing devoted to the ANZAC and I remember reading something in there that I found very interesting that stuck with me. When WW1 happened Australia was still a relatively new country. The modern Federation, as we know it today, was only formed in 1901 (which is also when the flag was chosen). Up until then it had been a loose collection of former colonies with the transportation of convicts only ending in 1868.
It wasn't until WW1 and specifically the disaster that was Gallipolli that was, in many Australian's eyes, the true baptism of Australia as a real country. 7.5 thousand Australians died and another 18 thousand were wounded there. Every year thousands of Australians visit Gallipolli and ANZAC day is a national holiday. The blood sacrifice by those men has become part of the founding story of that country and inspires Australians to this day.
I truly believe that this war will serve the same purpose for Ukraine.
Orban is on the sauce too ,.....
"Why would you leave?"
That comment says a lot of your apparent contempt for Ukrainian citizens. And your lack of any sense of moral fibre.
In football news Fenerbahce hosted Zenit St Petersburg in a friendly. 30 Zenit fans travelled to Istanbul for the game. The Russians went to the family section of the stadium causing trouble before police moved them to the away section. Some trouble continued in the away section where police then arrested 3 Russians. I don't know what the Turks are hosting these pigs.
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