good practice has always been that samples would be kept originally in murder cases in the trust that future science would provide some answers. I presume tissue sample might have been kept.
At the announcement of the cold case review, gardaí revealed that a full DNA profile for Baby John had been generated from samples preserved during the initial post-mortem examination.
From this article on RTE: https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0324/1366032-kerry-babies/
So samples were preserved at the initial post mortem in 1984 and used later to generate a DNA profile. They also took samples from some local women in 2018 when the cold case review began and exhumed baby John's remains briefly in 2018 for further examination.
From reading this article I'm assuming that they have been following a fairly definite line of enquiry. We'll find out soon enough.
I’d imagine the remains are skeletal by now. But considering scientists have been able in the past to extract DNA from insects billions of years old trapped in amber it doesn’t seem too much of a stretch to say they can get from someone who only passed away a few decades ago.
Up to a point yes. But I will absolutely judge anyone who thinks murdering a newborn baby is ok.
I won’t pass judgement on John’s mother though just yet if that’s what you’re getting at. I will assume she was a victim too. Unless it comes out that she did it.
How come that bastard got away with his brutality in this case is beyond me,I have seen him around Listowel a few times and a most arrogant prick that ever stood in two shoes will you not find.He did his best to lock up a innocent girl and persecuted a salt of the earth Hayes family .Only for the massive support of the Abbeydorney community at the time this family all faced being locked by this vile repulsive creature
Genuine Question...
How much of the remains of Baby John would be there after all these years, that they were able to take DNA samples?
This case is a complete tragedy. I hope the facts finally come out.
Some people get to waltz through life and others have their lives destroyed.
I think holding judgement until the full facts are known would be the best approach.
Kids or not nothing justifies stabbing an innocent 5 day old baby 28 times.
There hopefully will be a lot of red faces ,from guards,judiciary, and some high profile media personalities and journalists who behaved despicably at the time.
Yeah.
RTE radio this morning replayed excerpts from the tribunal coverage. Absolutely disgusting how Joanne Hayes was treated.
Let's also not forget that Joanne Hayes was a victim as well-victimised in the community, by the Gardai and disgracefully treated at the tribunal.
You can’t compare this to Granard. Granard was an awful tragedy and a real reflection of our society at the time. Baby John was stabbed multiple times when five days old, a deliberate act.
…..
Hooefully we're about to find out the actual truth. No doubt that O'Carroll prick will continue to blame Joanne Hayes though!
I think the couple in question were both mature adults at that time - if speculation surrounding their identities is correct, that is.
Sad sad stuff. Ireland back then was a different country. Im not so quick to judge if it is indeed the mother and father and they were only kids themselves. Sure look what happened to that poor girl in granard.
We have come a long way since then thankfully.
Rip baby john and i hope his mother and father find peace too.
She could have been any age from 11 to 20 in 1984.
Credit to the Gardai for pursuing justice for Baby John. Let’s hope we get the truth at last.
And let’s hope the many killers and rapists who eluded justice for their crimes committed decades ago in Ireland will now have sleepless nights worrying about whether they left DNA at the crime scene. Better still, these criminals may even find a Garda at their door one morning.
They said the woman is in her 50s. If she's 55yo now, she would have been only 16yo in 1984.
Hopefully justice for Baby John will happen soon - this story has been part of my childhood as it has for any other Irish boardsies over 50 .
If they are the ones responsible they deserve to be locked up for a very long time.
What was done to Baby John was pure savagery.
Two people have been arrested in relation to this case
The IT today has a bizarre column by FO'T in which he tries to compare the Kerry Babies Tribunal to the Ballyseedy massacre. There is a personal link between the two events - Stephen Fuller, the sole survivor of the massacre, was the uncle of Bridie Fuller, Joanne Hayes' aunt.
O'Toole has to admit the link is tenuous in the extreme
At one level, of course, this link is mere coincidence. These are different stories from different eras. There is no sense at all that the Hayes and Fuller families were targeted in 1984 because of what happened in 1923 – or even that the gardaí involved in the Kerry Babies story were at all aware of the historic nerve they were touching.
On the other hand, Bridie Fuller's role was crucial to the Tribunal. Of course, FOT does not mention her testimony because of the inconvenient fact that Bridie Fuller contradicted her niece at the Tribunal in regard to what happened to her baby.
That doesn't stop FOT fabricating a ludicrous and far-fetched analogy between the two events continuing, of course, the media's lies and distortions about the Tribunal. If you believe the media version of the Tribunal, read this thread before replying. And you might pause to wonder why FOT misses the most obvious link - Garda brutality in extracting confessions from the Hayes family. FOT did not have a brain freeze or a blind spot - the IT libel lawyers are well aware that the "Garda Brutality" lie - although believed almost universally - will land the publishers with another hefty bill for defamation from the relevant Gardai
Of course, dead men can't sue so FOT is free to drag the reputation of the late Mr. Justice Kevin Lynch through the mud once again, and this time to the point of absurdity where the Tribunal (i.e. Judge Lynch) is compared to the perpetrators of the Ballyseedy Massacre! That is an outrageous slur but FOT will get away with it because they Myth of the Kerry Babies Tribunal is firmly established.
FOT makes no mention of the Tribunal's stinging criticisms of the Garda incompetence and of their absurd theories trying to link Joanne Hayes to Baby John (more inconvenient facts).
We will never know who stabbed Baby John to death, even though DNA is solving many terrible crimes from decades past. Obviously, our media don't want to facts which might upset their narrative.
The Gardai are saying very clearly that they are not looking to prosecute the mother but they are obliged to discover the truth of this murder.
It also shouldn't be forgotten that an innocent baby was brutally murdered, its just disgraceful this lawyer is saying a murderer should be let off scott free because it might make a few people uncomfortable.
Yeah JH was treated very badly 40 years ago but things are different now and for her to call the investigation a "waste of resources" is just mind boggling.
Al prefers to make their opinion based on what the actual educated experts involved at the time say and not on the speculation of random posters, such as yourself, here on boards.
If the pathologist felt this baby died by drowning he'd have stated that. And it'd have been stated in court.
He couldn't say how the baby died, so your assertion that she killed him is an opinion. Your opinion. With no basis in fact from anything you've said so far.
But she's right: nobody wants the mother of Baby John to be prosecuted for simply giving birth. It's criminal that a baby was murdered, not that he was born.
Al will probably try to argue that the poor baby got into difficulty swimming.
It was indeed a fiasco. But all aspects of the story should be highlighted. I can't imagine the pressures (societal and otherwise) that were primarily on women in that era, but that doesn't mean parts of the story should be forgotten.
"When questioned earlier by gardaí, Ms Hayes was adamant she had given birth to a baby in a field and placed its body on the land in the family farm.
Following the court hearing, her family members returned home, searched for the baby and found it in a plastic bag in a stagnant pool of water."
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