Instead of countless threads getting derailed by pages of debates on red cards. We can keep it all in one place. Also discussions about 20 minute reds can be handled here too.
Well argued
Yikes. Very surprised at that.
Red card unsurprisingly over turned. Panel agreed foul play but sufficient mitigation not to be red. Pretty obvious outcome imo
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1638476179421249536?t=4y9nStjTTBGrVDWHz8vDFQ&s=19
Heh. The duality of man…
That's disappointing. Don't really give a shyte about this particular outcome, we got the win after all - but it's the message that it sends about how we're not really serious about head contact.
So to recap on the 6N;
Steward gets no sanction.
Grant Gilchrist smashes a French guy in the face with his shoulder - absolute minimum sanction of two weeks.
Mohamed Haouas launches a flying headbutt at a guy - and despite a terrible disciplinary record - gets three weeks.
Uini Atonio KOs Rob Herring - absolute minimum sanction of two weeks.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but of all the yellows issued, only Atonio faced a citing hearing? And not a single other incident led to a citing?
It's a joke.
Late change in Dynamics when you have run 20 meters at full pace. With no control over your actions or re-actions?
That's about 8 or 9 meters - Stewart in from half way - Keenan off the 10 meter line
Don't forget James Ryan shoulder charge to the head doesn't even get any mention.
Clearly was a harsh red , evidenced by that decision today.
I think Steward is on his 22 and Keenan is on the 10m so it's about 18 metres.
Not surprised it got downgraded. At the time I thought it could have been red or yellow. One of those incidents that would have been perfect for a yellow to be given with the option of the TMO upgrading it.
This.
There must have been 20 similar incidents in the Six Nations, just bitter English fans dug that one up looking for an excuse why their team are so sh1t.
But that's exactly my point - where are the citings for the dangerous ruck entries, where are the yellows being upgraded to red?
We've given up on reducing head injuries. Absolutely given up. Might as well give the Aussies their stupid rule changes, the current system isn't fit for purpose at all.
@Former Former Former I knew you'd eventually come around to seeing the 20 minute red card as a good thing 😂
I knew you'd eventually accept that you're an Aussie :D
BOD pretty much sums it up for me from about 5 minutes in here: https://youtu.be/TbppOgBTPBk
Looking at the point of contact isn't enough. Stewart was never beating Keenan to that ball. He has to approach the contact in a way that allows him to safely react last second.
Calling this a yellow is absorbing him off that responsibility, and nothing will change. If WR actual want to change behaviors, they need to get the citing panels on the same page, cause this decision send totally at odds with the intent of the law.
But if this is the standard, @Former Former Former is spot on.
Wow. How low can you go? 😂
I haven't seen the argument that he was hoping to beat him to the ball. Is this what they argued in the disciplinary hearing?
To me, it looks like the position he comes in at is perfectly fine, assuming the ball is passed to Keenan. He has to readjust first to the fact that the ball goes loose, and then to Keenan regathering. This all happens in well under a second.
To be honest, I'm surprised at how little sympathy people here have for Steward.
I think that decision is fair enough, always felt it was a yellow with mitigation due to low height of Keenan.
Kennan wasn’t that low, if he had been more upright it would have been even worse, as it would have been a shoulder directly to the head.
Cheeky prick. Next time I'm cheering for the Engl...... No. Nope. Can't do it.
Not sure your logic matches the hyperbole here. This was a very unusual situation. Pretty much every pundit has said so. And let's not forget that Steward got a red card in the match, so dropping it to yellow afterwards has no actual effect other than to any hypothetical ban.
Also reduced to yellow clearly doesn't absolve him nor does it represent a danger to behavior change. If he had got a YC in the game, I doubt many would be surprised and would feel it deserved. YCs are also supposed to moderate behaviour too. Most of the controversy is because it was a red when many thought it was a yellow or less. Also most informed commentators pointed out that the RC was given under the wrong law which the disciplinary hearing agreed with.
Also, it was Jaco Peyper. Being wrong about stuff is a feature, not a bug.
He hits his elbow ??
Posted the following in the match thread, and this hasn't change my mind.
Part of the issue is that when incidents like this happen, the range of outcomes is anywhere between penalty to red-card; I don't think there's much clarity. Add in the occasional disparty between what the ref decides on the field and what the discipline panel decide afterward, it all becomes muddier.
Stewart got a red, which was later downgraded to a yellow.
Atonio got a yellow, which was later upgraded to a red, and a ban.
Something is going wrong somewhere.
This is grossly unfair but typical of the unending abuse referees get on social media.
Firstly, for years, people have been saying that Peyper will let all sorts of violence go unpunished. Now he gives a guy a red card for a high shot and guess what? More grief.
Secondly, the citing committee made a point of saying that "the Committee acknowledged that match officials are required to make decisions under pressure and in the heat of a live match environment."
Peyper did his best, made a perfectly reasonable call, and still he gets dogs abuse from people like you, it's an absolute plague on the game.
See above. "The Committee acknowledged that match officials are required to make decisions under pressure and in the heat of a live match environment."
They can't spend hours going over and over the incident, like the citing committee can, with 50,000 screaming in their ear.
ive already explained why i think 20 min red cards arent a great idea imo, 10 min ones would be no better
"dogs abuse"? FFS Former, it was gentle ribbing at worst.
For the record I also don't agree with a 20 min Red.
The present situation regarding Red cards should continue, ie: player sent off cannot return and will be subject to further sanction on review. These reviews should allow for a downgrading to Yellow if the onfield decision is clearly wrong.
Any Red card decision upheld on review should attract much more severe sanctions than at present.
What I'd further suggest is that players who now receive Yellow cards cannot return to the pitch but can be replaced by one of the reserves.
The YC player is thus sanctioned and the opposing team has the advantage of playing against 14 for 10 mins and having the offending team having to use a reserve possibly earlier than planned. This measure might see a decrease in cynical offences normally punished by YC.
And I absolutely understand that. I genuinely think rugby is among the most difficult sports in the world to ref. I don't envy them.
But we want a situation where the decisions on the pitch are as close to the committee rulings as possible. And I think it's fair to say this type of reversal isn't uncommon?
i thought in your original post what you were talking about was regarding head contact
but yeah that yellow card suggestion isnt the worst imo
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