There was no 'spin' from me. I was reporting what was being said online.
See the diagram below and the 'cross community' aspect is explained. (It's from your own government BTW)
Stormont Brake: The Windsor Framework | Institute for Government
That certainly appears to suggest that a CC vote is not required to trigger the brake, but rather that the CC vote would apply to negotiated solutions instead.
Yes, and it was that which caused the initial confusion.
One way or another though, the cross community aspect is important to the resolution of any issues.
But my key reading into that is that in effect, the Brake mechanism can be engaged without a single Nationalist or APNI member voting for it. 30 votes across 2 parties is in effect giving the Unionist veto they were crying out for.....which makes the DUP position ever more transparently about having a, 'taig' FM.
It's a veto IF the 'EU considers the UK's explanation as sufficient'.
What I see the EU doing there is taking the opinion of those who didn't sign the petition and rubbishing the claims the UK is making.
A bit like what happened when Jeffrey's claims about the Health Service were fact checked.
And I have said several times that they made a big mistake. I didn’t vote for them then and I didn’t vote for brexit. So that’s not relevant
Yes the panel was a group of ‘yes’ people with the intention of getting their backing to return to stormont. The unionist community have called the dup to heel again, hence the about turn
You are also putting faith in a party that rejected a deal that avoided all of this.
Have you had a serious think about the ramifications here if a deal cannot be done?
You must be seeing lines I am not
Caused confusion to ‘some’ francie. What confused you? Was it the ‘roi and eu briefing the opposite’. Don’t really blame you
You were 'confused' yourself downcow. As you can see the 'Brake' is not successful until the EU considers the UK's argument as sufficient.
You claimed it was a Brake the minute 30 MLA's signed the petition. It isn't. There is still a high wall to climb.
’the brake’ is enacted simply by 30 signatures from two parties
We were all responding to what was in news. Siomple as that.
For gods sake…it’s just a smokescreen to stay out of stormount…..even a blind man can see that.
Jeffrey now claiming the DUP were right.
This is the same Jeffrey that voted for Brexit and the Protocol.
Francie. I don’t want to patronise you by posting bits of this very helpful pic you shared, but could you show me where the eu have to be consulted before the brake is trigged?
just have the good grace to do what fionn challenged me about. Just say ‘Downcow, you were scoffed and laughed at, but I admit you were correct all along’.
this is starting to sound like ‘it’s not negotiations, it’s discussions’ or ‘they are not changes, they’re flexibilities’.
The break is TRIGGERED when 30 MLAs across two parties agree to the petition.
The break is SUCCESSFUL when there is a resolution involving the EU.
Am I reading this right?
And no requirement for cross community (nationalist AND unionist) support
Nothing happens until the EU agrees that the UK has sufficient grounds.
The Brake may be triggered but it is not enacted until the EU agrees.
Triggered v enacted
negotiations v discussions
changes v flexibilities
francie why not just accept that you said the eu were briefing that a cc vote was required (can we say pull) the brake.
no cc vote required it would appear. Of course that is if we can believe this flow chart either. Another example of lack of understanding and another reason not to vote for it
Does that not say the brake is triggered if the UK government agree. So 30 MLAs can not apply the brake by themselves, the UK government has to agree.
That bit is a bit fuzzy. If you go by the flow chart then it keeps going around in a circle until Uk provide enough ie eu can keep asking for more info. Seems they don’t have to agree anything just confirm they have enough info. Then it’s off for a cc vote (which I have said all along) to stormont to try to bring in the new eu rule - which would seem unlikely to pass.
it does get interesting if TUV don’t return their one MLA. Then the dup would require support from uup which may not always be forthcoming
No, 30 MLAs (and firstly the assembly has to be up and running) can 'petition' to trigger the brake. They then have to explain to the UK Government why it would be necessary to trigger the brake, in that it would affect everyday lives in NI. Only when the Government agrees that it would is the brake triggered.
What then essentially happens is the new rule needs cc support in order to be adopted, so in essence both sides have an effective veto to any new rule applying, which complies with the GF/BA.
What's worth noting is unless the assembly is running, the new rule applies in NI regardless, and that the whole brake thing only applies to changes or amendments to the current protocol rules, so until the EU changes anything no one's pulling any brakes.
In essence Downcow none of us it seems were right. 30 MLAs can petition for the brake, but can't pull it, but the petitioning doesn't require cc support.
I think the genius thing in all of this is the assembly has to be up for even the petition. I've been trying hard to believe that all of this wasn't about the DUP accepting a deputy FM role (a title they themselves argued for rather than 'joint'), but really starting to wonder now. What do you think?
You mean to say you don’t know the difference between ‘triggered’ and ‘enacted’ ? You think they are the same?
😁😁
Thanks for steering us away from the rabbit hole.
In all honesty I believe O’Neill being minister has zero to do with stormont not getting up and going.
no unionist likes to have someone who was making speeches again in the last few days supporting the murder of policemen etc as their minister. But the community has accepted it will happen sometime if not now - if there is ever devolution again.
this is much bigger than that. This is about our place in the union.
Do you mean NI's place in the union that various court rulings have said is not affected?
How does NI's place in the union relate to the DUP making the choice to ignore the will of the electorate by not entering Stormont?
The Union can’t be that important if you look at the original demands and what they are looking for now.
just transfer all the stuff being imposed between gb & ni to eg between cork and its neighbouring county and then tell me that doesn’t affects corks place in Ireland.
The union that the DUP are actively refusing to accept the democratic will of?
The PM has opted for this course, and while of course they are free to disagree, then didn't accept the protocol despite it being voted for by the HoC.
The DUP are working against the very Union they claim to support.
Cork isn’t outside Ireland.
Britain has decided it wants to be outside the EU and to meet it’s obligation to the GFA and because it cannot find any other way for Britain to Brexit it has agreed to leave NI inside the SM
Now we're hitting the nail on the head, the existence of NI from it's inception has always been about your place in the union to the detriment of everything else, and it's never been anything other than a disaster, the worst of which has been a waste of lives.
The fear for unionists now is that accepting that they are now the minority in a power-sharing parliament is the first step to a UI, whereas if they actually engaged in it and promoted that NI could stand on it's own two feet a UI would never happen. It would be difficult for most nationalists to agree with SF commemorating murderers whilst engaged in Government, but until unionism realises that they'd be in a far superior position to call it out whilst engaging in Stormont rather than holding to 'no Stormont=direct rule=position in union safe', which seems to be the approach, the status quo will continue.
I'm no SF supporter btw, i think they are a bunch of gangsters, unfortunately they'll probably need to be in Government both north and south to be exposed as such.
