It's a veto IF the 'EU considers the UK's explanation as sufficient'.
What I see the EU doing there is taking the opinion of those who didn't sign the petition and rubbishing the claims the UK is making.
A bit like what happened when Jeffrey's claims about the Health Service were fact checked.
But my key reading into that is that in effect, the Brake mechanism can be engaged without a single Nationalist or APNI member voting for it. 30 votes across 2 parties is in effect giving the Unionist veto they were crying out for.....which makes the DUP position ever more transparently about having a, 'taig' FM.
Yes, and it was that which caused the initial confusion.
One way or another though, the cross community aspect is important to the resolution of any issues.
That certainly appears to suggest that a CC vote is not required to trigger the brake, but rather that the CC vote would apply to negotiated solutions instead.
There was no 'spin' from me. I was reporting what was being said online.
See the diagram below and the 'cross community' aspect is explained. (It's from your own government BTW)
Stormont Brake: The Windsor Framework | Institute for Government
I would assume that since the vote is on Wednesday and the DUP will not get either 1 or 2 done, so they're voting against it.
I am bemused that Sunak is happy to press ahead with the vote despite the Unionists coming out against it. It's a serious slap in the face and possibly the worst bus-throwing-under that they've gotten.
Do I understand this correctly:
@downcow: Do you really think anyone should be voting for something that few seem to understand what it means? Would you sign a contract that you didn’t understand?
erm, pot, kettle, black! You're the one who intends to vote for a party that encouraged the NI electorate to vote to leave the EU despite people not understanding the ramifications (purely because they had not been discussed and/or the people had been lied to by the government)
Sunak's going nowhere before the next election.
The DUP and ERG both peaked several years ago under May's government. They're both sliding toward irrelevancy now.
Do you really think anyone should be voting for something that few seem to understand what it means? Would you sign a contract that you didn’t understand?
it will still be implemented so unionists can still use the brake, but meantime they can keep pursuing more - after all francie thinks they got next to nothing so why would they not keep asking.
They are all spinning. You’re the guy said that roi and eu were briefing that cc vote was required to apply brake. But, hey, I need to stop reacting to this stuff
Sometimes in the inability to use memes in this forum is a shame, 'cos on occasions like this it's the only real way I can express my exasperated, but unsurprised, reaction towards this newsflash.
They are a party disgracefully incapable or uninterested in running the province if they can't be in the ascendancy. Hardcore Bexiteers to the last, the economic prosperity of their precious Wee Country be damned, even when gifted it by the masters they would so cravenly huddle against. Dinosaurs in dire need of an asteroid.
Do DUP vote against, ERG vote against, it passes with Labour support... Then what?
DUP still won't go back because 7 tests not met?
Rishi starts counting his days left with party support?
Significant movement is a stretch and an example of the triumphalism mentioned earlier.
You thought you got significant movement but what you got was what you were told you would get, flexibility in some aspects.
Habib and Bryson are at least honest about it. You cannot accuse the British government of spinning the deal and then claim you got something significant.
Diplomats tried to fashion something for Unionism to climb down on but they'll strategically make a mess of it again.
Donaldson is too weak a leader.
I, for one, am shocked...
Nate
I don’t think there is much doubt. The dup tail has had its day wagging the unionist dog. The dup were setting up a process to enable them to return to stormont. They were pulled into line some time ago by the community and told to get out off stormont. Our community is leaving them in no doubt that they will be devastated st the council elections in a couple of months if the date to return on the back of the WF.
the unionist community pressure gained significant movement, but nowhere near enough.
they definitely will not risk supporting the WF on Wednesday
I don’t completely agree with you. I accept there is a lot of gotcha going on It’s a bit of chicken and egg. I have reacted to the ‘let’s put down the unionists’ themes (not you).
so I am going to try and rise above but it’s not easy. In this thread alone I have had people mock and scoff at the ‘nonsense’ of my posts, eg Uk not existing in 1921, stormont brake requiring cc vote to be enabled, etc, etc. and then silence from everyone when my ‘nonsense’ turns out to be fact. The post just before yours is ‘gotcha’. Posters seem to take the view that if unionists move their position it is weakness/defeat/dishonest, while if anyone else does it is progressive/peaceable/etc
this is the same view as when republicans work with the security services it’s informing but when loyalists do it it’s collusion
I was referring broadly to your conversations surrounding Brexit and the Protocol rather than specifically that one post; as I said it's the popping along whenever you think you have a 'gotcha', then disappearing without comment when corrected on the matter; the correction already appears to have come along for this particular topic, though I don't know the topic well enough to say who is correct, nor is the topic important enough to me to delve into it deeper. Since it clearly matters to you enough to post about it, surely you'd prioritise finding out if the interpretation you've read is accurate rather than frantically rushing in with another, 'see, the EU are mad' post?
Ironically, the only, 'correction' you've acknowledged happened totally off thread and was to align yourself more closely with the hardline Loyalist crowd of Jim Allister, Bryson et al. It makes your constant painting of yourself as, 'moderate, everyday Unionist' hard to take seriously, especially when you're speaking with someone who indeed does know many moderate, everyday Unionists.
On the Stormont Brake topic, you'll find that my commentary on the topic was that I'd read mixed reports, and I presented (with a source) what I'd read the BBC reporting on it. As time has gone on, I continue to be unsure of the specific process. I suspect this is a feature rather than a bug to allow it to be sold as all things to all people and we won't truly understand it until it first comes up in reality (if it ever does).
Seems the 7 tests have been quietly sidelined and there is some doubt on the official DUP position on this week's vote.
I don’t know how that is being triumphalist. Quite the contrary. As someone who was initially quite warm to the WF, I am learning slowly that i was wrong to believe much of the spin (NB, me acknowledging a correction again).
it is my understanding that the Uk government cannot extend the ban on hunting trophies to ni due to the protocol. If I am wrong I will certainly acknowledge that.
while you are on the subject of ‘acknowledging corrections’, I will expect (not) one side or other to come on later (after the stormont brake is clarified later today) to acknowledge any corrections required to their stated positions over the last weeks.
I will commit to coming on if it’s me got it wrong
PS I accept my phraseology could have been better in that l post about hunting - I will try to do better in the future
It's pretty clear at this point that no matter what happens, you'll always revert to pushing the most intentionally misinterpreted anti-EU propaganda position at this point.
I'm genuinely confused at what you hope to gain from these discussions; I've rarely seen you acknowledge a correction, your position has hardly evolved over time and it isn't like you stay around and robustly defend your perspective; you pop along whenever you think you have a, 'gotcha', discover that you've been wildly oversold by whatever outlets you get your information from and disappear beneath the surface pretty quickly until your next big, 'gotcha'.
While disagreeing robustly with you on pretty much every topic in our interactions over the years, I've often valued your perspective but the whole Brexit/NI Protocol topic seems to be bringing out a real desperate wish to be triumphalist in you.
"A crazy position taken up by the EU". I guess we're going to see this every time the UK wants to change a law where they can make it out that the EU is taking up the opposite position.
As usual, the Guardian has a more balanced take with how this has negative impacts on African nations and wildlife.
It all comes back to Cecil the Lion I guess. Even then, people knew that selling the rights to kill problematic animals and using the money to save others was a good idea. But it's an emotive topic and will now be used to attack the EU like downcow has done here as if the EU "has taken up the position" that trophy hunting is good and must be forced on Northern Ireland.
I've no horse in the game but this is like the UK banning the chopping off of human limbs, and then using that to attack the EU for taking up the position that chopping off human limbs is ok. When really it's amputating gangrene and saving the person.
It's all about how you spin it.
What is the "crazy position been taken up" by the EU?
The text of the Bill specifically refers to it applying to GB, and that as an exception will not apply to NI due to pre-existing rules in force on imports from some 1997 regulation, which the appendix goes into more detail on the coverage of these.
So surely its more correct to say that "The UK government has taken up a crazy position where they have knowingly implemented rules in 3 of their 4 territories and introduced a backdoor route because a) they didn't see the need to engage with EU over this, b) they don't see the need do any border checks on goods coming across the Irish Sea. "
Where are you getting this from?
another crazy position taken up by eu. Following the protocol and WF Northern Ireland will be unable to prevent nasty people from importing hunters ‘trophies’ of endangered and vulnerable animals. UK are currently bringing n this law but EU says we have to continue to accept these killed endangered and vulnerable animals in ni
McBride has a point, but the simple fact is that the entire Brexit project has consisted of people having arrangement imposed on them that were not as advertised. The DUP enthusiastically supported that project, and never objected to this feature of it until suddenly it was done to them.
Even now, I could take them seriously if they had a conversion and objected to people having arrangement imposed on them that are not as advertised. But, no; it seems they have their own brand of Brexiter exceptionalism; it's find to do it to everyone else and we continue to support this; it's only an outrage when its done to us.
Serious opponents of the Protocol oppose hard Brexit. Those who don't won't be taken seriously.
Good, maybe you'd tell Sam McBride that.
Unionism has always supported sensible bio security measures
Certain plants that may transmit diseases have long required EU plant passports for travel within the single market, so it's an inevitable result of Brexit that they are banned now.
Funny I don't remember any furore when unionists sought to differentiate themselves from the UK during the last foot and mouth outbreak.
Yeah, strange times indeed. Did the EU stop the flow of Kool-Aid into the North or something? I see Bryson complaining about similar.
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