Still looking through the auction listings. There's a bottle of that newish Jameson single pot still. Do people buy that thinking it's going to increase in value, or is it a gift they get and don't want?
Maybe I need to by a few more to flip abroad so. 🤣
I wouldn’t be so sure. A lot of the bottles at auction are shipped abroad, and 2023 is hard to get at the moment at retail value.
You could probably pick one up cheaper than retail in the auction.
Probably not the distillery themselves but the staff in some of the shops maybe…
The March Irish Whiskey Auction has 37 bottles of 2023! It would make me wonder if some were submitted by the distillery in order to maximise profits.
It's live in Dublin Airport.
You can buy it now online, and pick it up if you're flying any time in the next 3 months.
I suspect that there is a good reason for the 40% abv.
I think the market for MVR falls into 3 general groups :
The collector (doesn't care what the abv is).
The expensive gifter (won't be drinking it, either, so doesn't care about abv)
The whiskey drinker who values "smooth" above all else. 40% is "smoother" than 46%
I know someone who "didn't like whiskey but likes Midleton". 40% just appeals more to these kinds of people.
Obviously, some people genuinely love this drop and really appreciate it but I think the bulk of its market falls into the above.
I got to taste a Midleton blend that had been recasked for events in Midleton. Felt a lot stronger than 40%. It was probably the nicest whiskey I've ever tasted. If they bottled it like that, it would be amazing!
Jim Murray doesn't officially admit that price is factoring into his scoring arrangements. He does regularly score cheaper whiskies higher than more expensive whiskies but this isn't across the board.
He's kind of an entertaining reviewer more than being a 'rigorous' objective reviewer. There are suggestions that he favours distilleries he has had a relationship with at some point in time (Ardbeg for example). At other times he has scored in a way that seems contrarian or publicity-seeking. So there have been times, in Irish whiskey scoring, where he might give a supermarket blend a higher score than MVR for that year.
I've got one of his books next to me so... Here you go:-
For reference, in the same book (2023 Jim Murray Whisky Bible) he scores Redbreast 12 96 points, Writers Tears 93 points and Powers Gold Label 96 points.
Now, I actually think all three of those are world class whiskies, in their own right, for different reasons. Are they all objectively better than MVR in a given year... Harder to say...
It's not that he is engaging in reverse snobbery as Murray does score some expensive whiskies very highly. He'd always give top marks to Dream Casks, Buffalo Trace Antique Collection etc.
Are his reviews price pointed? Like he flat out prefers eg John's Lane over the MVR or his score is price weighted.
There's definitely a variation year by year to some extent. I don't drink / collect MVR but whisky reviewers I follow who do would rate each year and they'd consider some better than others.
Jim Murray is a controversial figure in whisky reviewing, for various reasons, but if you look at his scoring of MVR down through the years he consistently prefers less expensive Irish whisky in many cases. Not just Celtic Cask and special edition Redbreast, but he'd often give things like John's Lane a higher rating than the MVR of that year.
I don't think there's any evidence scoring affects secondary market prices though!
The MVR samples I've had down through the years have been very pleasant but I wouldn't deny that I find them a bit insipid at times. The 40% abv bugs me, for god's sake, even got to 43-46% lads...
Exactly.
Price has nothing to do with the taste in a particular year.
It's blended anyway so wouldn't be like wine of a certain year.
Price is driven by small batch years, change of box etc.
I don't think that was the claim. There's an acceptance that all MVR is of a certain standard.
What is being said, and I think it's true, is that the variation in prices for different vintages has absolutely nothing to do with any taste variation in different vintages.
A particular vintage doesn't become more valuable because it tastes better than other vintages - it's because it's rare or in a different box/bottle etc.
This is very different to how wine gets priced, generally. One particular vintage becomes more valuable because it has been rated as tasting better than others.
2020 was last Brian Nation - as it's when I started getting interested.
I very luckily managed to grab a bottle for the brothers 40th... and the lads in O'Briens were telling me it was the last with Brian Nations name on it.
Kevin kicked off in 2021 - which is when I grabbed my first bottle. Folowed by 2022 (wife spotted it in Dunnes and treated me) and the lad in my local O'Briens (Limerick) pulled me aside on Saturday to say he had a 2023 for me. So the plan is to grab one every year. I might buy another 2023 to drink - as I have a somewhat 'whisky themed' man cave - and after burying a very dear friend last week, I'm very aware of how short life can be.
If it didn't taste good, it wouldn't be as well respected as it is. Variation in taste over the years doesn't affect the overall value.
Which years would command a higher price due to taste?
That's untrue. It's just not the number one factor.
Nothing to do with taste AFAIK.
So value is down to a combination of
Number of bottles in circulation
Master Distiller
Maybe packaging
Anything else?
Does taste come into it? Are some years known as a nicer or worse drink than others?
That's not really true though. I know a few people who don't have one yet. The odd bottle appearing in an off licence for a day or 2 is not to say they are easy to get.
9 was a small batch (recession?)
17 was 2 different bottle types, the new one being most valuable
20 was a small batch (COVID?)
14 is getting valuable as it's the last Brian Nation I think??
10 also getting valuable as not many about.
I cleared out the house at the weekend and chucked a 2019 box in the bin. Really doesn't bother me that they've switched. But I also don't have a fancy whiskey display like some people do.
Picked one up on Sat in O'Briens... the new (paper/cardboard) box is a bit "meh"...
Why was the 2009 a big earner?
FYI, 2023 is the 40th year of MVR
The new packaging, creates a new starting point for collectors, just like with the 2017.
The market is flooded with '23's.
Individually they won't be a big earner like the 2009, but they will be worth something as part of a bigger collection.
Long and short of it.. if you have multiple MVR '23s , you might as well crack one open.
It won't be the golden goose that you will retire on.
I always intend to do stuff like that, but it never works out that way. 😂
Keep a sample size of the 2023 so when you do open the 2021 you can compare :)
I still have a 2021 put away, but will probably drink my 2023 later in the year, when I've some work news to celebrate.
Yeah we got over stocked of it. In fairness 2020/2021 were rarities seeing as it was the last year of Brian Nation first year of Kevin O'Gorman and it drove demand for people to sit on/collect!
As expected, availability of MVR 2023 not to be a problem. Just picked up one in Dunnes Waterford. They got 5 in this morning, so there are 4 still available for anyone in the area who's interested. €210.
Why do you?
