Let's end this. The Catholic Church should not have control of any schools in Ireland. Time for it to end.
Time for Irish people to stand up and protest over this. The Government should take all schools off the Catholic Church.
I had to double check to make sure I had the right poster.
So you were on the Gaa forum fighting for the idea for men to compete in women's football.
You made a statement that kids as young as 3 can know they are in the wrong body.
Yet here you are here admitting you don't have kids and posting about removing the Catholic Church from schools.
You will forgive me for doubting your motives for this thread.
Sure wouldn't removing the Church make it easier for trans studies to be introduced into schools.
I assume seems you are so concerned about kids bring thought about ideology that you are against trans being thought in schools?
Irony and ignorance is packaged into the OP's call to inaction.
Not only are some of the earlist written records are of Church schools, during the 7th Century, the arguements echoes those of English bureaucrats who sought to remove the role of a Parent's faith from their childrens schooling, just as the current state proposes. Likely, as all progressives are expert in US politics, that country's education system is held out by the Education dept. as some form of ideal - ignoring the role of Catholic parochial schools which out perform their public peers.
Still, if removing Church ethos from schools means owning the conservatives at the cost of failing students it is totally worth it, amirite?
If he'd admitted his non-belief he'd have been fired. If newly qualified teaching graduates were honest about their lack of belief they wouldn't be hired.
I know you know that’s not true. There’s nothing prevents a non-religious person from being employed as a teacher in a Catholic school, and that’s what they are, an employee of the school, not an employee of the State.
BTW you still haven't answered how their control of 90% of primary schools can be justified.
They own them, what more justification is needed to control something that someone owns? The fact that they own and control 90% of schools is again due to something else you know which is that the Department of Education controls 100% of the education system in Ireland.
They teach this to six year olds.
Don’t provide a source for that crap anyway, it might reveal that you’re peddling bullshìt. Your source is Atheist Ireland, who claim to be promoting atheism, reason and an ethical secular state. Publishing crap like that they’re about as truthful and trustworthy as Gript. Utter garbage, and does nothing to promote atheism, reason and an ethical secular state. All they’re doing there is promoting fearmongering and prejudice.
https://www.teachdontpreach.ie/2015/10/mary-says-yes/
‘Teach don’t preach’ they say, while preaching lies, misinformation and misrepresentation.
Would it be acceptable if, say, the civil service refused to employ non-catholics?
Will "Ireland is a catholic country" be next?
You don't have a leg to stand on and you know it.
If it was a free and liberal country we wouldn't still have overwhelming church control of taxpayer funded schools.
More anger and nonsense.
so if they’re exempt, what’s your problem?
I don’t care what percentage they are involved with. That’s your issues. It pisses you off, not me. Most people are like me, just getting on in this free and liberal and democratic country we inhabit. And our children bouncing into school and bouncing out of school.
FFS. They're specifically exempt from equality legislation so they can discriminate on religious grounds all they like
I loved the daily ritual of greeting the children one by one in the morning as they walked through the school doors. It was time to lock those doors and leave the building. However, at 58 years of age I could walk away from my school and publicly admit something for the first time: I was no longer a Catholic.
Your posting here is my exact point. A real anger that is driving you and won’t allow you to be more diplomatic and engaging.
Have you some evidence that schools in Ireland are deliberately discriminating against hiring certain people based off their religion? You have heard of employment laws and rights?
Having them shunned, fired, boycotted, if they spoke out against the church.
That sound very familiar, yet funnily you've no problem with the new age variant of the church.
They're the landlords if they own the land.
If you dont want to send your kids to a religious order school then don't.
But you seem to want to change land law to suit your ideology. The state cant use a religious orders land and have no conditions of teaching that religious orders religion at the school attached.
Myth. The state was funding primary education long before independence. Churches (RCC, CoI, Presbyterians up north) wanted control though and they got it.
So they're basically landlords is that it?
Funny how in the late 19th century we rooted out one set of foreign landlords while allowing another to take hold, isn't it?
The church uses state employees to brainwash kids for a minimum of a half hour every school day, what contribution to the state funded salary do they make for that?
BTW all of these lands are zoned for educational use (and were often bequeathed under that condition, also) so can't be used for anything else. These lands have no commercial value. The 19th century school buildings would have no value either were it not for the maintenance and improvements paid for by the taxpayer over the years.
The Catholic Church had far more money than the newly independent Ireland when we needed schools built, they built them at a time that the government couldn't.
They're a religious order. Perhaps they let schools on their land so they could teach their religion?
So we want the state to get free use of land from the religious orders but they cant teach their religion.
I live abroad and have a child. The potential necessity of placing him in a school where Catholic religion is taught (as fact) every week, Catholic songs and prayers are performed frequently, and First Communion and Confirmation make up a big part of two years of primary years education, is a genuine reservation I would have about returning home.
I attended Catholic schools for all my primary and secondary education, so I know it's not the end of the world. But I was part of the group joining in with all the ceremony and teaching then. I hate the idea of children from non-religious (or non-Catholic) families being excluded from what's going on with their friends, and so 'othered' in that way.
Ah shure there is a litany of abuses alright. Many people were even pressurised into willing money to the church after they died. Quite lucrative I am told. Post mortem indulgences I guess.
The state pays no rent to the religious orders for using their land. You understand that?
While they were accumulating all of that wealth and property they were threatening people with burning in hell forever if they didn't comply. Reading them out from the altar if their donations were not deemed to be enough. Having them shunned, fired, boycotted, if they spoke out against the church.
As a supposedly benevolent organisation 😁 maybe I thought they built the schools on behalf of their congregation.
You have no answer. Numbers matter. They continue to control those schools the same as they always have, they teach a specific religion as fact during the school day, they discriminate against non-catholics, they deny the constitutional rights of non-catholic parents, pupils... and teachers!
Why should the church continue to control 90% of primary schools?
Why do most parents not have the option of a non-catholic primary school?
Why is a non-catholic teacher unemployable in 90% of primary schools?
The state doesn't get to use these schools for free. It pays the salaries, the running costs, extensions, renovations, etc. etc. same as any other kind of school.
Second paragraph - it's been a long time now since any more than a few kids have any interest in religion at secondary level. It's primary schools which are the subject of the thread and where catholic church control is 90%. At secondary it's thankfully far less and nearly all kids are immune to their nonsense by that stage anyway.
Wouldn't you have rather used that two hours a week to do something useful?
Do you think it's OK to segregate five year olds on the basis of religion?
Do you think it's OK to tell five year olds about hell?
I posted this before but the church acquired property using revenues from many sources of ill gotten gains. Examples...selling babies and forced adoption, forced vaccine trials, slave labour in laundries and mother and baby homes etc etc.
Did you read the "Mary said yes" bit when a 12 year old was told she was to be impregnated? Creepy as anything.
As part of the Catholic religion course ‘Grow in Love’, six year old infants in Irish schools are being taught that ‘Mary says YES’! to God ‘working through her’ by making her pregnant, despite Mary being afraid, confused and not understanding what was going on.
Mary looks like a little girl in the picture that is to be displayed in all classrooms. When Mary says ‘YES’!, she is sitting on her bed looking startled, it is nighttime, and there is a little kitten with a heart on it beside her on the floor.
This is an extraordinary and dangerous message to give to young children. ‘SAY YES’!, even if you are afraid and confused. Just trust someone that comes to your bed in the night.
You are caught up on numbers.....their actual influence and psyche is not near the levels it was years ago....it's 2023, the world is completely changed. People are insanely more free and open and able to speak than they were years ago......and that too brings its problems.
They're the legal owners of the land. Unless gotten through illegal gains how they became owners makes no difference to the fact it is their land.
The Catholic ethos. Absolutely hilarious.
But those votes were of parents with kids already enrolled in those schools. FUD won the day - fear, uncertainty, doubt - a church-led campaign to stir up fear of change.
Parents of future pupils e.g. preschoolers in the areas got no say at all. And these votes were only held at all in a few areas.
Not as influential anymore?
They still control 90% of primary schools.
They're ramping up the hardline religious indoctrination with the new "Flourish" programme.
I ask again - because you have ignored the question - what is the justification for this church continuing to control 90% of primary schools?
Who gave the religious orders the money to build them?
Most of them have been updated,enlarged and modernised at taxpayers expense at this stage anyway.
