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Referendum on Gender Equality

kowloonkev

Just some questions about this for some of those members more informed on the constitution.

Is a referendum on this necessary or can the constitution be changed without a referendum?

Is this just another in a long line of social justice referendums (where the government can't lose) to distract us from the important issues of the day?

What does this gender equality referendum mean in practical terms?

Does it work both ways - as in, if it is to ensure equal rights for women, does it also mean equal responsibility, and that there is no favouritism in the family court between fathers and mothers?

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[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334964#Comment_120334964

Let's be honest though, you're not 'quietly making a few points', you're dragging up strange edge cases from other countries to use them in punching down on a vulnerable group.

If you want to actually protect women from violence, maybe make a start on the 99.999999% of violence that comes from men, cis men, traditional men, not trans women or men.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335312#Comment_120335312

Who was lobbied at the dinner?

BTW, your caps lock seems to be stuck on.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335312#Comment_120335312

I'm guessing you removed the link you posted because it, in no way, backed up your assertion

As previously stated, this amendment to the Irish constitution was tabled due to lobbying by banks and vulture funds. The Supreme Court of Ireland has stated that because the womens place in the home is enshrined in the Irish Constitution, an official assignee or receiver cannot sell or partition a family home even if the husband owes large sums to his creditors.

Shouting a one word answer does not back it up either

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328751#Comment_120328751

Frankly that is all a load of shyte.

Probably a mixture of horse and bull as it is such cr**.

Does anyone think that by changing the words in the constitution it will make Johnny spend more time doing the housework or looking after the kids or that Davy will spend less time going out getting drunk and coming home to smack his partner around.

FFS.

Fine if you want to change it, but admit that is from a legal stand point.

And by introducing gender equality are we talking about the old fashioned concept of two genders based on sex or the Facebook modern concept based around feelings?

That is the question that most are going to want an answer on.

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335386#Comment_120335386

Trans women are biological men identifying as female. But you know that and so does anyone with half a brain. A transwoman will never be anything other than a male by sex and chromosomes. Hence they are just as dangerous as you imply 99.999999999% of natal males are. The fact that someone identifies as female does not make them any less violent than natal males, which all transwomen are anyway.

A tiny proportion of the population are trans. A tiny proportion of trans are vulnerable, but the wind is blowing in their favour so they should be alright.

I am firmly of the view that TRAs know exactly what they are doing and demanding of women. Why they want to be women in the first place - if they want to erase them - is beyond me!

This referendum is titled "Gender Equality", so while on the surface it may have nothing to do with trans issues, it could in time and I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

FunLover18

There is no wording yet, all this talk of transgenderism is fearmongering and speculation, as of this moment it has no relevance and is completely off topic.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335769#Comment_120335769

The open letter from the citizens assembly I quoted earlier in the thread referred to “all genders”. Personally, I would say “both genders”.

I’d be voting no if that’s the terminology that’s gonna be used.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335972#Comment_120335972

This is the rub here.

If they change wording to state all genders or if they decide to enter a new section altogether around equality of all genders, they introduce difficulties down the road.

And they make it a referendum effectively around trans rights.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336009#Comment_120336009

That’s what I’m thinking too. I suppose it’s a wait till May (?) and see what the wording is.

_Kaiser_

It strikes me as another Varadkar Special... another Feel-Good Referendum more about virtue-signalling than meaningful change and a distraction from far more immediate and wider impact problems that he and the Government are failing on.

Wording for up to three referendums on gender equality will be published in the early summer, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

He said the referendum or referendums, to be held in November, would set Ireland on track to be “a world leader on gender equality in all its forms”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/03/08/up-to-three-gender-equality-referendums-possible-to-address-discriminatory-language/

That's Leo to a tee really. "Look at us! Aren't we progressive!"

I'll withold full judgement until the details are released, but if it's (as I suspect) all about further diluting biological facts and realities in favour of feelings and divisive identity politics - especially where that extends to teaching young impressionable children about this stuff - it'll be a firm No for me.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336084#Comment_120336084

Yeah, I think there's also a bit pseudo democracy going on with stuff like this. "Look at us, we let the people have a say", even though they won't let us have a say on far more important and impactful matters.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336103#Comment_120336103

There's that too - especially when no-one voted for some of the measures yet are facing the negative effects of them.

This has become an even bigger issue since the advent of Confidence and Supply and outright Coalition between FF and FG after back-room deals outside of the public eye, both of which have undermind our democratic process even more.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335182#Comment_120335182

LOL. A degree in "science" is it? I wasn't aware they handed those out. I found this well worded explanation a number of years ago. Being that you have a degree in "science" you shouldn't have any problems understanding it.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335408#Comment_120335408

Do you want their names or what? See if you can calculate what 1.9% of the US population works out at.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/transgender-population-by-state

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335784#Comment_120335784

Do you need someone to explain to you how estrogen hormone therapy for trans women works? And how it is different to testosterone?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336084#Comment_120336084

I knew I read something more about this one in the last few days...

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has personally backed primary school students being offered education about what it means to be transgender but stressed that he believes a clear parental opt-out should also be offered.

His comments came after Catholic primary school managers wrote to ministers opposing the teaching of transgender issues to primary school children.

Children's Minister Roderic O'Gorman has already signalled he believes transgender education should be part of the primary cycle to promote a greater understanding of the diversity in modern Irish society.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/trans-people-exist-taoiseach-backs-teaching-of-trans-issues-after-primary-schools-voice-opposition-42370997.html

As I said above, I have a sinking feeling that it's this stuff that this Referendum is about rather than trying to give women equality that in 2023 they absolutely and rightly already have in real terms.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336144#Comment_120336144

None of those developments mentioned need a constitutional amendment.

Calahonda52

Re this further up

Is this just another in a long line of social justice referendums (where the government can't lose) to distract us from the important issues of the day?

The question presupposes that justice is not an important issue. I don't think you'll get many takers for that position. And the notion that the whole thing is confected by the Government as a distraction from something else is undermined by the fact that this isn't ultimately a Government initiative - it's a recommendation of the citizen's assembly to which the Government is responding.

The CA's are funded by the Gov so are a very useful distraction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Assembly_(Ireland)

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336171#Comment_120336171

The intention is clear. To further normalise the dilution of biology, sex and reality in favour of the idea that feelings and self-identity are more important than such things.

Trying to then push this stuff on young impressionable children through authority figures in their lives (teachers) is no different then when the Church did pretty much the same thing with its ideology in schools not all that long ago.

Water John

It's so sad that we're moving on from the 1950s.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335429#Comment_120335429

Who did Brian Hayes lobby about ownership clauses in Irish homes at GolfGate - was it the Minister for Agriculture?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336205#Comment_120336205

Did you miss my post?

None of those developments mentioned need a constitutional amendment.

Why do you think these developments are tied up with the planned referendum?

sydthebeat

i see the conspiracy theory looballs are out in force today

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336249#Comment_120336249

Not all "progress "is inherently good. Just because it's different from the past, doesn't mean that we're heading in a direction that's better for humanity as a whole, which seems to be a point that way too many people struggle with.

“The whole curse of the last century has been what is called the Swing of the Pendulum; that is, the idea that Man must go alternately from one extreme to the other. It is a shameful and even shocking fancy; it is the denial of the whole dignity of the mankind. When Man is alive he stands still. It is only when he is dead that he swings.”

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336282#Comment_120336282

If you can't draw the connection between the leader of the country pushing gender identity politics for schools one day, and a few days later pushing a referendum on gender equality... well, I don't know what to tell you!

But unlike Leo I'll be very clear on this one... a legal adult (18 or older) can believe or do whatever they want - ideally and preferably being fully informed of the effects and/or consequences of same - but that's where it ends.

No-one else is required or obliged to agree with or advocate for their choice or belief, and no one else should be negatively affected for not doing so. The only obligation is tolerance and basic courtesy.

It certainly doesn't extend to pushing ideology and contentious identity politics on young children who have neither the maturity nor ability to properly consider what they're being told, nor an ability to counter or reject it (given that we're talking about primary level kids and teachers here).

However - we'll see what the full text holds, but I'll be surprised if I'm far wrong given the politicians involved!

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336127#Comment_120336127

Estrogen can change male characteristics, but it doesn't change their biological sex or their chromosomes. Some undergoing such therapy keep their gonads and other bits too, just in case like..

Chips Lovell

It's mad that people are taking a referendum about removing the reference to women's place being in the home and deciding that this is about transgenderism instead. Almost like they want that to be the issue.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334136#Comment_120334136

where were you 7 years ago that trans people didn’t exist? O.o

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336393#Comment_120336393

It's called "mission creep". On the face of it, this is a simple common sense issue that no one could justifiably object to.

But given official Ireland's obsession with the whole "Gender" topic of late, I fully expect that there'll be a lot more to this. But hey, happy to be proven wrong when they release the full proposal.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336367#Comment_120336367

Just in case? I wonder if it’s more likely the prohibitive cost and risk associated with major surgery..?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336367#Comment_120336367

It makes people physically weaker and reduces aggression.