The government are currently investigating increased parking, congestion charges and speed limit reductions in order to help the country meet its climate goals. Looks like a split in the coalition is emerging over the proposals, which are likely to be deeply unpopular. Do you see anything of the proposed that could be considered politically palatable?
So you have one person who does long distances on the mobility scooter good man how many people do you know doing this kind of distance on a regular basis is it just the one?? I know a person who can live in -10 degrees without wearing clothes so should we all do the same and not bother using any kind of heating or buying clothes ye know for the good of planet? :) Strawman much?
People should not have to think outside the box with the amount of taxes paid and gained over the last decade by successive governments and lets not forget the amount of borrowing successive governments have borrowed in the Irish peoples name and p1ssed away. This money should of been more than enough to have decent options when it comes to public transport. So you can take your box and stick it where the sun don't shine.
How many 70 years olds do you know realistically that are in full health and without ailment - I know a few and some have hearing issues, sight issues, diabetes, COPD, heart issues, cancer to name but a few and all need regular trips to a hospitals and unfortunately hospitals are more densely accumulated in highly populated areas like Dublin. So I know quite a few who would have a round trip into Dublin at least once a week or so.
You might be right about the dangers of someone being hit by a car on a scooter. I would also hazard a guess that at the age of 70 things like your sight, hearing and physical fitness and flexibility is not what it was meaning a lot of people 70 years + would be a danger to themselves on a road even without any cars on it, also we are talking Ireland here not a sunny paradise where you may well have 4 seasons in one day. So I may be way off track but I say weather and the fact that at 70 your body is starting to show the stresses of a lifetime of living its called old age which is why if you look at almost any sport its rare to see someone in their 50/60/70s dominating the field, you may have one offs do, like your lad that scooted from Kilkenny to Dublin on a daily basis.
What choice do I have enlighten me please Oh wise one?
A congestion charge for me going into Dublin city center to work is a tax on work. I have to work, my job is in Dublin, I have to commute in using the car. So because of the nature of how I work the likes of you will ask me to pay an additional tax when I am working. I cant explain that any simpler for you, its a tax on work.
Going where now? Asking where is the money going that people are paying in to the system via tax. God even if we were not having an argument about this issue, surely the nature of the spend our government are controlling needs to be examined. Like I say a housing crisis and health care crisis and 100Billion in tax taken in last year alone and the powers that are spending cant get a handle on it and its not just last year the HSE has been a sh1tshow since its inception?
Would they be a minority?
According to the CSO Dublin has a daytime working population of about .5 million.
That's from a total working population of over 2 million.
Can you realisitc do a 60/80k round journey on a mobility scooter?
I knew someone in my last workplace who lived in Kilkenny and used a scooter to commute from home to their local station (Callan IIRC) and then used the scooter again from Heuston to Sandyford. They did this every day and were happy doing so. The alternative would be driving about 300km per day.
People need to start thinking outside their own little box. Our choices in the past were never sustainable and whilst we are now nice and comfortable with them, they do have to change regardless of whether or not you want to.
Be lovely now to see a 70 year old out there in that weather on scooter heading into Dublin.
How many 70 year olds are commuting into the city every day?
I would hazard a guess that the main reason you don't see 70YOs on scooters generally is because of a fear of being hit by someone driving. By reducing the number of cars on the city streets, you might see more and more 70YOs take to escooters!
Plus, I know many 70 year olds who are out walking, jogging and cycling in all weather types so it is a pity you need faux sympathy to defend your point.
Where am I looking to blame anyone else. I am simply arguing the point that as a worker in Dublin I should not be taxed again to go to work using a car if I have no other valid options to turn too.
You do have choices. You just don't want any inconvenience from them. I've no idea where you live and work but you have the choice to drive to the outskirts of Dublin and then use public transport.
Plus you are not being taxed to go to work so drop the hysterics. It would be a charge for choosing to drive into a congested area.
As for the money with public transport as stated 100Billion taken in with tax revenues last year. Surely there should be areas of spend that can be cut. Off the top of my head we could cancel all paddys day junkets we would save a good whack of cash and let the lads in gov lead the green brigade by been greener with regards to their political interactions going forward. There is a vast amount of waste going on in lots of public sector departments and we are paying over 20billion in social welfare that needs to be looked at. Those 2 areas alone if there was the political appitite to make savings there could be billions saved and used for public transport the lazy option is lets tax the suckers more and I mention tax in every post as a congestion charge for going into Dublin city center is essentially a tax on people who have to commute to work in Dublin.
Are we really going there simply because you don't want the hassle of getting out of your car?
Really have you travelled on the likes of the M1, M2, M3, M4, M7, M11 or any of the other major roads coming into Dublin from other counties, the vast majority of young people now cant afford the price points of renting or buying in Dublin and there is phuck all properties available anyway. So this cohort has been and will continue to increase year on year.
How is the debate about being greener and this congestion charge and trying to get cars off the road is exactly that its a green initiative and ministers who are looking to punish people by charging them for having to drive into Dublin and then jumping on a plane and expelling mass amounts of CO2 emissions separate. IMO they are one and the same. They have one rule for them and one rule for the rest of us.
Can you realisitc do a 60/80k round journey on a mobility scooter? Be lovely now to see a 70 year old out there in that weather on scooter heading into Dublin. As for roads and the cars. At least the car has a bit more protection with regards to the state of the roads. Where am I looking to blame anyone else. I am simply arguing the point that as a worker in Dublin I should not be taxed again to go to work using a car if I have no other valid options to turn too. Is that ok can you get that through your head. I am not looking to blame anyone I am looking at people making these decisions to give us the alternatives. As for the money with public transport as stated 100Billion taken in with tax revenues last year. Surely there should be areas of spend that can be cut. Off the top of my head we could cancel all paddys day junkets we would save a good whack of cash and let the lads in gov lead the green brigade by been greener with regards to their political interactions going forward. There is a vast amount of waste going on in lots of public sector departments and we are paying over 20billion in social welfare that needs to be looked at. Those 2 areas alone if there was the political appitite to make savings there could be billions saved and used for public transport the lazy option is lets tax the suckers more and I mention tax in every post as a congestion charge for going into Dublin city center is essentially a tax on people who have to commute to work in Dublin.
to be fair you can’t really answer the question like this. What people who can’t walk places or use a bicycle will do is take their car and if they don’t have one they’ll usually be depending on friends/neighbours/family or taxis or whatever.
I am one of those people that cannot walk a great deal but I’m given nothing from anyone to make it a little easier to afford the extra (and “”unnecessary””) journeys.
Those people who work outside the Pale would be a minority of people, inconveniencing them for the greater good is smart. A much bigger issue from the POV of the environment is those living in the leafy suburbs who drive 1-2 km a day in their Chelsea tractors. And this move would make them think twice
Politicians flying away for Paddy's day is a separate issue altogether in fairness.
But people aren't arguing for free public transport. The real carrot is better public transport.
The only people I've seen argue in favour of free public transport are PBP and the Greens who had it in their 2020 manifesto but have since abandoned that position citing the research you've linked.
I've seen a few people make comments to the effect that these measures are always sticks not carrots. Well, according to the below a big carrot such as free Public Transport, wouldn't reduce cars on the road. :-(
Tldr; usage of PT does go up, but it's mostly at the expense of cycling and walking.
Free public transport would mean just 1% reduction in car travel, says report
https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/03/08/free-public-transport-would-mean-just-1-reduction-in-car-travel-says-report/
There are two separate issues:
1 - Climate change from CO2 emissions (we must acknowledge that not everyone believes this is a problem).
2 - Traffic congestion. This is an issue even with cars that produce no pollution. There is no solution to this except to reduce the number of vehicle journeys in urban areas. Unfortunately, building more roads is not a solution except in very limited circumstances. Assuming that people will still need (or want) to travel in town centres, the only options are mass transit or small vehicles such as bicycles or scooters. I guess buses are the most economical form of mass transit, but there would need to be a lot more of them at peak times. With dedicated bus lanes, buses should be very effective. It is hard to see how an underground train system could compete with buses because of the horrendous capital investment.
Not if they've emigrated to get accommodation.
It depends, the greenways are a great project and not only are used by the local population but a huge draw for tourists.
In years to come these types of project normally end up been the best money spent in the area. While the great motorway that was build has just pushed traffic to the next town/village and people complaining they need a motorway because of the traffic.
For the size of Ireland we have an excellent road system. We should now maintain and invest in a public transport system to macth it
I wouldn't hold your breath to be honest.
As per the article. It's a Greenway. I am still waiting for you to admit the error you have made multiple times now.
The cost presumably reflects current costs but I don't work in procurement so won't comment on whether it us valid or not.
What I would say is that it will take hundreds, if not thousands, of people off the roads each day when complete. Would you rather those people cycling on the main roads into the city instead so we can save some money?
In terms of the cost, one could also make the cost/km comparison to the M50. How much per Km was paid (taking inflation into account) for the West Link toll bridge? According to the following, we paid €1.15Bn for it...
So they can drive a car but not a mobility scooter on these roads? you seem to jump from Dublin to outside Dublin to try make the point relevant.
No the roads are not that bad, the odd one knocking around but the majority are in decent condition.
As I said already, the Green Party are a small player in the government which is formed less than 3 years. You need to have a look around for someone else to blame. Pay more tax, don't pay more tax. As I already posted I am not sure what money would be used to increase pubic transport but at this tsage not sure why you feel the need to mention tax in nearly every post.
Well the wfh policy was supposed to be transformative. We could argue all day about what that might mean and what tangible numbers might be required to validate it.
Let's let people make up their own minds on whether a transformative change has occured.
What's really important though is we've established that where somebody can work from home, and their employer won't allow it, the employer is in effect the polluter.
We'll introduce a tax on those employers and a rebate scheme for other commuters who can't WFH.
Problem solved.
Now, let's get back to talking about data centres, hvo, and how we allow forestry in peatland which actually produces co2.
They are a lobby group who are none of the people or political parties that you are accused of holding up the Galway ring road.
You've posted several incorrect statements in this thread and I've corrected you. You've provided "sources" which didn't back up your allegations. Basically, what you've posted has been lies to suit your own agenda. Are you going to stop making stuff up now?
Once again over 100 billion was collected in taxes last year how much more blood do you want from that stone. There is more than enough money coming in. The spend is where any additional funding needs to be taken from the government are like drunken sailors docked at port throwing money around trying to buy votes. The populism spend needs to be tackled and cut.
really so a 70 year old travelling into Dublin on a mobility scooter.. Oh my god just Oh my god. Do you realize that the roads in a lot of areas outside of Dublin have not been managed and have more potholes in them than a Colander :) .. You see this is where we differ I feel the country is heading backwards. We cant house our population, our hospitals are like war zones and the idealism from the greens is jump on your mobility scooter and get out of you car or else pay more in tax?
No matter what way it's cut €15m/km is an extraordinary amount of money for what is being proposed.
I've read the article defending the cost, and the justification even there is weak to be honest.
"Details of how the Contractor priced the works, such as ramps, the bridge and trees are of a commercially sensitive nature and cannot be published at this stage." I call BS on that - the price of a ramp or planting a tree is not commercially sensitive. DCC and NTA know they're being taken for a ride but were pressurised to push ahead anyway and can't delay any further.
I looked at the business case for the scheme too. Even if the Cost Benefit Analysis numbers are accurate (the detail behind how they were determined is loose enough) once the project is completed, they will never ever be challenged.
We as a people are being told by government ministers we need to reduce the use of cars due to CO2 emissions and to pay a more for parking in Dublin and a congestion charge. and yet government ministers will all jet off around the world on planes creating lots of CO2 when these meetings could of been held over a zoom call meaning no flights were needed. Then they have their free parking in the dail. So as I say one rule for them and one for us..So if they want people to change let them start with themselves.
I read stories like this and I immediately think, 'great, everyone is getting the bus or train to work tomorrow.' Yeah, good luck with that.
These proposals are right up there with hiking parking charges at hospitals. Want to see your loved one in hospital? It'll cost ya. Now, it'll be, 'want to go into the city for anything? It'll cost ya. Are you working on minimum wage and struggling with the cost of living right now? Well, have we got news for you!
As I said, you made a statement about WFH which was incorrect. You admitted you actually WFH. At least we have got to the point now that WFH is still a policy for the government.
But sure lots of us are looking to be carbon neutral by x. Can we drop the talk of these taxes so?
It's a greenway, having previously lived in that area it will be a welcome addition to the population
You posted a link to an article with the heading
"Why is a 2.1km section of the Royal Canal Greenway costing €30.8 million?"
Well most employers are looking to be carbon neutral by X, I know we are. WFH is part of it.
Well I'm fine with the principal of polluter pays, but where you're just trying to get to work, and without a viable alternative, it's all wrong.
In this case anyway I think you'd have to look at the employer as the polluter.
If the job can be done from home that is.
Well I know a number of public servants who are more or less full time WFH now. Others are not but that is because of the job they do.
I bet a lot of people would love to WFH, I would expect everyone. That doesn't mean they could or should WFH. As I said it is up to the company to make that call.
But we are going off topic, at least we can confirm that WFH policy is available and people are currently using it that didn't have the option before. I expect this to increase in the years to come
Maybe they should just 'incentivize' it on the employer and not the employee the way this is planned?
The fact they brought in a 20% wfh for public servants tells me they've abandoned it, or maybe it was just nice sounding spin in the first place.
I bet a lot of people with a long commute facing these potential charges would feel they should be able to work from home.
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