The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
From a future proofing viewpoint.....
One can see where proper stop just for the charge* en route EV charging is going in future (done correctly).....
We can see from charging tests like Bjorn Neylands.
That a good charger and a good EV can be going from 10 to 60 percent in 15 to 20 mins......
In the recent what Car winter range test the Model Y did 272 miles.
So 400 miles on 1 stop of less than 20 mins is going to be possible if fully charged (ie from home) at the start....
Where things start getting interesting also is that if you can hit 80 percent in 25 mins..... Then good availability of HPC in your area and across the country means you can do any journey even if low on charge.
Looking at Bjorns Model S Plaid results recently - I feel he could do under 10 hours for 1000 kms even if he started the clock with car near empty.
Developing infrastructure requires an understanding of where the technology is going....
*destination, charge where you park etc charging is a different ball game in its own right
We're not far from someone proposing, based on analysis of people charging at eCars 50kW chargers we've identified an average charging speed of 40kW and primarily using CHAdeMO*. Therefore we will now only be rolling out 40kW chargers.
* data collected Mar-Oct 2016 on Tuesdays
Not to mention the overstay fee’s you’d have incurred unless you needed less than 33kWh at each charging stop on those 50kW chargers….
Yea but if you drive a leaf then you couldn't charge much faster than 50KW so feck everyone else.
While we're at it we might as well stick install CCS and Chademo in the same 1:1 ratio.
You're both missing the point, do we really NEED charge speeds of 150kW?
I did roughly 530km for work yesterday. Stopped twice for 'fast' charging for about 25 mins each and maxed out well over 100kw both times.
If I was stuck on 50kW chargers, I would of added an extra hour to my already long 14 hour day.
So yes, I need it.
Osprey in the UK had a blog post on this. They're focusing on the rollout of load balance 150kW units based on demand from their network. The difference for a Taycan between a 350kW unit and a 150kW unit is only 4 minutes.
https://www.ospreycharging.co.uk/post/peak-v-average-charging-power
At Osprey, we continually track the real-world metrics to understand the demand and capabilities of cars on the road and in the future. We adjust our hardware and site strategy accordingly.
- The average actual charging power of cars registered in 2022 was 95kW
- Of all EVs on the road, less than 10% have an average charging power over 110kW
- So you could serve two cars with two 350kW charge points, or four cars just as fast with four 150kW charge points.
Yes
But we don't get hubs with 9x 50kW chargers here, we're getting mighty hubs with between 2 and 4 plugs per location (and usually 1 fewer parking space than needed) because forward thinking be damned! So if we're only getting a few plugs per location then 150kW+ chargers are the way to go.
In an ideal world there'd be a mix of 150kW+ and 50kW chargers at each location (how about 2x 150kW + 3x 50kW) and let people choose to pay more per kWh at the faster charger (I would happily pay more to use a third of the time to charge) and let people pay less per kWh at the slower charger (if they want to take the time to eat, or don't have a car capable of high power charging or whatever).
It's not like we, the experienced users of EVs, are going to have our input listened to anyway, we should be lucky we're getting anything at all.
I agree with you up to a point but like I've said before the chargers should suit the requirements of the customer
If we were talking about a supermarket or shopping centre then I'd absolutely agree that a lot of 50kW chargers are better than a couple of HPCs
But the context here is the likes of Mayfield and now the upcoming Barack Obama plaza, where you want to charge up and get out of there ASAP. So 150kW and more is definitely what you need
FWIW, ideally you'd have a mix, say 4x350kW chargers with dual CCS and load sharing and then another pair of 100kW chargers with dual Chademo+CCS, and a lower price per kWh to reflect the slower charging rate
Yes, we do
There was a survey a while back trying to figure out the amount of time people would be willing to wait for a charge
It pretty much came up with 15 mins as the max amount of time people would be waiting before it became an inconvenience
So in 15 mins you need to load as much range as possible, probably for another 250-300km. For most cars now that seems to be on the order of ~50-60kWh, assuming you're doing around 20kWh/100km
That works out to an average charging power of 200kW
Cars are working towards this by having much higher charging speeds and more predictable charging sessions
But the network needs to keep pace, which is why you see 350kW chargers getting installed even though only a few card can manage even close to that
And ESB being all proud of their 100kW chargers which can load share down to 50kW is pretty disheartening for the way things are going
Yes, shorter charging times = shorter queues = both allowing us to get back on the road quicker
Even if I did drive a car that needs a mortgage to buy I'd still argue that 9 X 50kW chargers would be far better than 3 X 150kW units from the POV of queuing for a charge
Yes.
and if you drove a car that wasn’t limited to 60kW charging you’d understand this.
Yes I think sites should be able to do 150kW at each plug, like Ionity do, and 4-6 per site minimum.
You can have 300kW marketing and 800v etc but most cars are 400v and 150kW for right now is a good mix of speed and scale.
On the topic of how fast is should be, personally I think the sweet spot as of right now is 150kW. I think a good site should deploy the Kempower style chargers with 8x150kW being the available capacity. The chargers should be capable of operating in the 350kW mode but only when the site isn't fully occupied. The kempower solution is better than eCars choice of charger because it spreads across multiple charge points instead the old A/B problem like earlier versions of Superchargers.
In fairnes 44kW gets a leaf from 20-80 in 30 minutes so how much faster does it really need to be?
But the Leaf is now in the tiny minority.. and getting smaller by the day.
and at 44kW the most any car could take in 45 minutes is 33kWh…. That’s less than 50% for the majority of cars released since 2020……
but yeah, how much faster does it need to be????? Bang of “I’m alright Jack” off of that….
LOL. Yeah lets base all future decisions on a deprecated car from 2012 with a dead charging standard. Yeah thats a great way to design hubs.
Putting it out to tender doesn't mean that private operators could provide a poor service or charge a high price - there are lots of ways of structuring public tenders. Turas don't get to decide how much the M50 toll costs, that's decided by TII. GAI and Transdev don't get to decide on public transport routes, frequency or fares - they're all decided by NTA.
I wouldn't be too quick to judge AppleGreen, they're only in the market a couple of weeks so teething difficulties are inevitable. eCars have been doing this for years and they still install AC on DC chargers and 3 parking spaces where 4 cars can charge.
In fairnes 44kW gets a leaf from 20-80 in 30 minutes so how much faster does it really need to be? I accept that situation will change in the coming years but if ESB want to keep their costs down (and lets be fair they are one of the cheapest for consumers at the moment) then a hit probably needs to be taken on the speed
Considering the price difference between ESB, ionity, applegreen etc etc I don't think that would be smart. Hearing reports of Applegreen chargers supplying 17kW at some CCS locations
We are, but its going to be at Obama Plaza
And outdated, consider that BP pulse just installed a hub in the UK with 10x 300kW chargers. 20 cars can charge at 150kW in parallel
Charging power in cars is only going up and ESB aren't even trying to future proof their network. Instead they're installing technology that is barely adequate for today
For a minute there I thought we were getting J14/Mayfield 2.0
it'll be 2 years old in June.
Unfortunately the quote is that it can charge 4 vehicles at a time. *Hub*
I'm reading it as 4 chargers with two connectors each.
So a total of 8 connectors which can all be used simultaneously.
So potentially 8 cars could charge.
Layout at the site will be crucial here as ESB have mucked this up repeatedly
Not if you stay with your car
“We started the year with 22 high-powered hubs and will have 42 by the end of the year,” Mr Byrne said.
As of data scraped from eCars today they have 20 sites with CCS chargers over 50kW. Only 11 of which have more than 1 CCS cable capable of charging at that speed.
Probably in a pay and display car park so you have to make 2 payments.
Only three spaces though. Fourth guy has to pull up on the embankment.
I'm really looking forward to the "big hub" in Killarney that can charge a whole - wait for it - 4 cars at once.
