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Eflow penalty notice - Dispute

Burti16

Hi All,

I received a penalty notice from eflow for a relatively small amount, but the issue is that I was not the owner of the car on the day of the journey and I was not even in Ireland at that time. I provided evidence to support my appeal, including a car sales agreement, car registration certificate, and travel itinerary to demonstrate that I was out of the country. However, my appeal was rejected by customer service, who cited the national vehicle driver file as evidence that my name was associated with the car. I am unsure how this is possible.

What are my options for appealing this decision? Although the penalty is smaller than the cost of a small claims court application, I do not want to pay for a penalty that was not my fault.

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User1998

What evidence did you show them regarding the registration certificate? If the fine is being sent to you then that means you are still the registered owner of the car

Burti16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288165#Comment_120288165

The journey happened on 14 July according to letter. SIMI car sales agreement that I signed shows 18 July and the date of first licencing of the car according to certificate of registration and licencing shows 22 July. On top of that I have flight tickets that show I'm out of Ireland between 7-17 July.

Wouldn't this be enough?

Deminiman

If I was in your shoes I would pay the fine. A relative of mine was in a similar situation, his car was advertised on done deal, someone cloned the number plate and done numerous trips on the M50. He ended up in court, had evidence he was in work on the days the clone car was on the M50. He got no hop at all in court, he was left with a bill of €3000. A horrible experience for him.

Sarn

If I understand correctly, the journey took place four days before you bought the car, while you were out of the country?

They must have just checked to see who the current owner is and didn’t bother reviewing what was sent in. I’d be appealing.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288191#Comment_120288191

So if you check your registration certificate, what date does it say that you purchased the car? If the date is any time after the car went through the toll then there is clearly a mistake on Eflow’s part.

Del2005

Contact the garage you sold it to and ask them to pay. You don't post off the VLC when selling to a garage and they must not have updated the online database to register the change of ownership, assuming you didn't fill in RF105.

If you sell your vehicle to a motor dealer

If you sell your vehicle to a motor dealer, you must give the dealer the Vehicle Registration Certificate.

Both the seller and the dealer must complete the Form RF105 (pdf).

An approved dealer can use the online change of vehicle ownership service to notify the details online. Otherwise, the seller must send the RF105 to the Department of Transport.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/buying_or_selling_a_vehicle/change_of_ownership.html

User1998

OP did this incident happen around the time you bought the car or sold it? Its not really clear

markpb

I’d give up on showing evidence that you were out of the country, it’s not relevant at all. eFlow believe that the car passed through the toll and that you were the registered owner at the time. It doesn’t matter if you or someone else drove it, or that you couldn’t have driven it - all that matters is that it was driven through the toll so the owner is liable for the toll.

If there’s a dispute about ownership between you and a garage, eFlow will definitely stay out of that and keep increasing the amount you have to pay. If it was me, I’d pay the toll and be done with it. Otherwise you’ll be going into court trying to argue against a fine of thousands and hoping a judge agrees with you.

Burti16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288378#Comment_120288378

I didn't sell my car.18 July is the day I purchased my car and this incident had happened on 14 July.

Burti16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288444#Comment_120288444

Sorry. The time I purchased.

Journey had happened on 14 July and I bought this car on 18 July.

Lil Fred

How much are we talking about? 3 quid?

Burti16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289432#Comment_120289432

Does it matter? Would you give your money to whoever asks?

Lil Fred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289438#Comment_120289438

Yes it matters

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289429#Comment_120289429

Have you contacted the garage? It was their car when it went through the toll so they should pay it.

If they refuse how much more of your time are you willing to waste over a €3 bill?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289431#Comment_120289431

And what date is on the VLC for the change of ownership?

colm_mcm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289472#Comment_120289472

7 months in at this stage, fine has probably gone to silly levels now.

Lil Fred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289551#Comment_120289551

Uh-oh. Looks like someone’s been a silly billy. Might end up have the car repossessed over a €3 toll. Could make the national papers !

bobbyD1978

Ffs, 3 quid and he's spent more time online posting about it than it would have taken to earn the 3 quid!

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289431#Comment_120289431

Was that the date you collected the car ?

What date did you do the deal ie. agree to buy the car ?

walterking

A simple letter to eflow.

"I did not own the car on the date in question. I purchased the car from xxx motors on 18th July

I attach proof.

I trust I will not hear back from you and you will send the fee to the correct person and not be so incompetent as to send it to someone that did not own the vehicle on the date stated.

I will not be replying to any further correspondence and should you wish to issue legal proceedings, I will relish the courts response to your targeting of someone who did not own the car on the date "

That should get rid of it.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289674#Comment_120289674

The only date that matters is what's printed on the VLC...

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289709#Comment_120289709

The VLC date is a record of when the car went into OP's name.

The date he agreed to buy the car is interesting because it shows the garage had the car in their stock.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289685#Comment_120289685

Did you not read the OP? He has already send proof and it was unsuccessful

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289431#Comment_120289431

So the important question then is what is the date of purchase on your registration certificate? It seems like the garage might have put the incorrect date of sale on the registration certificate, therefore making you liable for the fine.

Just an FYI, you will receive letters from debt collectors for around €150 or so, but after that it will go no further

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289535#Comment_120289535

This 100% is what matters. And hasn't been confirmed by OP

Sarn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289821#Comment_120289821

The OP said the VRC/VLC is the 22 July. Clearly someone in eFlow hasn’t done their job properly.

mikeecho

At this stage, the fine is massive.

If the op is truthful, and only purchased and took possession of the car or caused for someone under his instructions to take possession of the car, after the date of the toll passing, and he can demonstrate same,

Then.

1. Send proof of same by registered post to efow or whoever is managing the debt.

2. Do nothing more until a court date.

3. Present evidence in court, of date of purchase, and of such proof of purchase having previously been send to eflow/collection agency.

4. See what the judge says.

*Blah blah.. not legal advice, just the course of action I would take at this stage

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289901#Comment_120289901

Its 1 journey. I’m nearly certain it increases to €150 and gets passed onto debt collectors. Don’t think it goes much further than that. Thats as far as it went with me anyway

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289833#Comment_120289833

OP mentioned date of first licensing which is irrelevant

Muahahaha

OP have you tried ringing them up and explaining the situation? I was in a similar position last year and had racked up a penalty fine but they waived it on the phone. The call centre guy was able to do it without even talking to his manager. Must admit I was surprised with how easily it got sorted. I got the impression the call centre staff are told to just waive fines for genuine mistakes as eflow are playing the long game and they know you'll be spending with them in future.