The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
Yup. AC 43 is a fast charger and the defined time is 45 minutes before the penalty charge kicks in. I have no problem with the fast AC being on a triple head 50kW (same as I have no problem with a chademo being there too btw, thats where ac43 and chademo belong, on the 50kW). The problem is putting a slow 22kW AC on a fast charger with not enough space for both
You mean on the 150kW chargers or "high power" to use the ESB phrase? Does that happen often? I don't visit that many DC points but usually AC is only on the 50kW units
Both. If you look at the Blanch set-up https://photos.plugshare.com/photos/867050.jpg the AC can block either charger depending where they find availability. Having a 5m+ cable allows one the charge from either of the 3 spaces. What is the point of having an HPC with two plugs a 50kW DC with one and an AC on a 3 spaces layout? Even without the AC things are complicated enough because somebody can and will charge from the 50kW on the middle spot blocking one plug of the HPC but with the AC there that is certain. The worst case someone using the AC from the spot where Tesla is in the picture, anther in the middle from 50kWDC and HPC is rendered useless.
Good example from the other day. The MG is plugged into a high power charger just off to the left. The XC40 using the 22kW socket is inadvertently preventing any use of either the CCS or CHAdeMO from the Efacec.
There's really not much benefit for any network user from this setup. We would all be better served by installing a separate AC point further down the car park. These kind of basic layout mistakes shouldn't be made at a station installed at the end of 2022.
These kind of basic layout mistakes shouldn't be made at a station installed at the end of 2022.
eCars: Hold my beer
I meant on the 50kW but as the posters above explained it's an issue anywhere its installed as it blocks a space. If you have 3 spaces for a 150+50 setup, as is ecars' want, you waste a further space by installing a 22kW SCP at the 50kW. Means even if everyone parked ideally, you will always have one plug blocked. If that blocking is done by someone on the 22kW it could be in place for 10 hours
Would the XC40 be hit with the overstay fee at 46 mins (as they're plugged into a 50kW unit) or at 10 hours (because it's only AC 22kW (using their own cable I think), and not a tethered AC43 from the past)?
It's 22kW so the limit is 10 hours. Unfortunately. And this is why its such a bad idea
There's nothing stopping a PHEV parking in the middle space in the likes of Blanchardstwon and leaving the car there for up to 10 hours.... so for 10 hours 1 side of the 150kW unit is unusable...
It's a fcuking joke that they've (eCars) done that....
Thanks, that what I was afraid of; as I'm sure a hefty bill for hitting multiple overstays at each 45 minute mark would put an end to PHEV's charging at a 'fast charger' for extended periods.
It's almost like the people who designed the eCars charger locations don't use Electric Cars so don't understand any of this (and don't care enough to understand)
The solution the way I see it in these cases is to put in 4 charging spaces instead of 3 for locations that can handle 3DC + 1AC? Lick of paint should sort it. You could also use different coloured paint and/or seperate signage and mark the 4th space for those wishing to charge on AC. That way a charger would (in theory) never be blocked
I'm guilty of it myself plugging into the AC port on a 50kW unit, I always try to do so in an space not marked for EV just to give DC users more room
I think the best solution is to keep tethered fast chargers in one spot and have a bank of slow AC somewhere else. Plugging into the fast AC while waiting is not the worst as you're still subject to the 45 minute limit. I've done it myself at times, especially in my Teslas that have 3 phase AC. The difference in using ac at a fast charger when waiting, and plugging in with your own cable is the use case. Destination chargers are supposed to be used for hours, not a few minutes while waiting, you know? And the thing is, the phev in the photos isnt actually doing anything wrong! Its just bad planning with ecars.
4 spaces, 2x HPCs with 150kW and 2x CCS outputs
Beside it 2 spaces each with a 50kW charger with CCS+Chademo plugs and no AC
Nearby, 4-8 spaces with 7/11kW AC chargers
Meanwhile on Planet Dreamland, all war, sickness and hunger have been eliminated 😂
That’s exactly the layout I saw time and time again travelling through Europe last summer…
At least 2 HPC’s with 2 spaces each, then the 50’s with 1 space per unit, and then a sh1t ton of AC’s..
This was a hotel carpark in Eindhoven next to the motorway.. Superchargers (about 16), 2 HPC’s (4x CCS) a 50kW and about 20 AC sockets!!
and never saw 1 of them ICE'd
And the good thing about the amount of chargers, users have a choice between cost and time/speed. EG if staying at the hotel overnight you could use the AC, if you're there for a planned meeting or dinner or wanted a longer stop you could use the 50kW, or if in a hurry you use the hpc or suc.
In ireland, for the most part, it's a case of take whatevers available and be thankful to anna.
I just don't understand why nobody has got an answer from them on this. Such a blatantly stupid thing to do.
Anna is on sabbatical
Great set up there.
"and never saw 1 of them ICE'd" Is that Model S ICE-ing a spot on the right if the picture :()
No, they are plugged into the bank of AC chargers…(little small green cylinder looking AC plugs) (it looks like the Superchargers are on this side, but they actually serve spots on the other side of the hedge…)
Pavilions shopping centre has multiple chargers on multiple floors. I agree it would have been better to move them away from the doors to reduce ICEing, there should be a similar set up in all shopping centres but they typically only put a few so you can't rely on getting one free.
This would be ideal.
Saw this on Facebook. Possibly a cheaper way to use esb. May be more expensive in other situations. Often these cards change pricing too so typically end up a higher price than official esb app
I'm not going to bother signing up for yet another app as I rarely public charge anyway, but I would be a fan of the dynamic pricing. It promotes good charging behavior and disincentivizes long stays
I doubt Freshmile are making a loss on this. More than likely they are buying from ESB at a wholesale rate. Of course they could raise their prices but I'd think they would have done that by now if they were to
I agree, having a time component to the price encourages efficiency. I think data compression was at its best during the days of dial up internet 😂
Personally I think the per minute rate should change during the session. First 15 mins €0/min, 16-45 mins say €0.30/min, after that €1/min. That'll stop any overstays for good
The time component in pricing opens a whole discussion of abuse from the provider. Remember the few weeks ago at AG when everyone was reporting speeds of 25kW? The provider can blame your car. How do you prove them wrong? Unless you get a charger which can prove that it delivers low power doe to the car's request this practice is questionable and some consumer protection bodies banned it.
That's kind of why I reckon the per minute rate should only kick in after a set time. If the charger doesn't deliver a decent amount of power then the operator won't make any money on the kWhs before the time rate starts
Fully agree with this - a timed component is not a trustworthy part of a charge for exactly the reasons you mention: The AG one that was only giving 25kW, or there's one stall at Kill that was only going up to 40kW, and you would definitely be there for a longer time because of that.
Timed components should only kick in like Tesla - once you're finished charging, there's a per minute charge to encourage you to "go or get off the pot". Tesla also have a way to double the per minute fee if the site is at 100% occupancy -- Although, since it's ESB we're talking about here that would typically be the case as most sites have historically been SPOF. 🙂
Per minute payment should kick in (in addition to per kWh payment) once the car reaches 80% SoC…..
or
When the rate of charge your car is taking is only at 40%/50% of what the charger is capable of putting out…. ?(or something to that effect…..)
so of course you can go to 100% if you want, but you’ll be penalised for it…
Didn't we already discuss the reasons why 80% was a bad candidate for a charging cut off. As a rule of thumb it doesn't make sense due to the many different charging profiles.
The percentage of output idea sounds promising but you run into a problem where it's the charger restricting the charge rate instead of the car. Consumers shouldn't be punished for infra restrictions
