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Social Democrats

blackwhite

Stories circulating yesterday of a letter from a number of SD members and some Councillors calling for leadership elections within the party. Given the party was formed as a vehicle for 3 individuals initially - but has clearly evolved into a much broader party then it’s hard to argue that at some point they need to, at the very least, affirm that the membership and parliamentary party have given a mandate to the leader(s).

Can’t help but think that they’d be one hell of a political force with the likes of Gannon or Cairns at the helm of the party.

They wouldn’t necessarily be my cup of tea in terms of economic policies, but with one of those two as leader they could potentially kill off Labour once and for all, and become a serious rival to SF for left-leaning voters

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Furze99

At end of the day, the Greens, SocDems and Labour are all pulling at the same type of urban/ suburban voter these days. They should do the citizens a favour, merge into a new party and offer real credible opposition to the FG/FF hegemony, an alternative that is acceptable to the Republics voters.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278974#Comment_120278974

He'll do well so. He sounds like my local fella at home who has the seat for about 20 years, hes practically anonymous in the national media.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278992#Comment_120278992

SF has strong support uin the younger demograpics. Labour has not. That "generational change" idea would have a very strong momentum if the SocDems were to take on Labour. Both are fringe parties at the moment. But only one has a future.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279016#Comment_120279016

Too many snouters and too few places at the trough. Green voters (non water melon variety) are also quite different to Labour and SocDem voters.

Regards...jmcc

Augme

Soc dems have done very well for such a new party. Finding, good, credible candidates is always going to be a struggle but there cohort of TDs are all very strong. Whether can find more is the big question.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279032#Comment_120279032

Not really, all are enthusiastic nanny staters and woke progressives , no reason environmental goals can’t dovetail

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279126#Comment_120279126

Green voters (non-water melon variety) have been described as FG on bikes. This is why they are quite different to Labour and the SocDems. The Greens had an influx of water melons from Labour in 2016 and they even tried to remove Eamon Ryan as leader in a coup. It didn't work. Some of them then went off and set up Green Left and nothing was ever heard from them again.

Regards...jmcc

cal naughton

I don't think Cairns is a shoe in at the next election cork south west is a tight 3 seater. Since election she has criticised dairy farming in particular which is a huge part of the large dairy industry in that area. I don't think that will go down too well. Her family themselves are former dairy farmers who have converted to seed production.

Also interesting that she is Cork's only female TD.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279013#Comment_120279013

'Please answer my questions' says the lad avoiding the question about the claim he just made and trying to distract attention from his 'lip service' false allegation.

Yes, you CAN run opinion polls at any time, that is correct. Now it's time for you to be specific - are you saying that opinion polls showed that both these referendums were a safe bet before the referendums were actually put on the agenda? That's your claim, so you need to either back it up, or have the decency to confirm that it is an opinion, and not a fact.

Lip service me arse.

Beechwoodspark

I don’t get the holly cairns hype

she would be a useless leader

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279385#Comment_120279385

I don't really understand what you're asking for? I think you want me to go and find opinion polls pre-referendum? But for some reason they'd have to be before the referendums were announced? What would the point be?

But again do please answer my question. How can FFG be so brave and progressive, yet clearly have no concern for the disabled, unhoused, or elderly?

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279422#Comment_120279422

Young, female, progressive, a rural-ish face for an urban party, name recognition from the mother and baby reparations.

She ticks a lot of boxes.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279422#Comment_120279422

Correct.

But she would be exactly the sort of person with zero political capital, that could be the sacrificial lamb to bring the SDs back into the Labour Party fold and then be disposed of.

I think thats why Gannon and probably Whitmore will stay completely in the background on this one.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279030#Comment_120279030

I agree that SF is gathering a deal of support in 20-30 demographic but how firm is that support? Even young people who may have heard Mary Lou condemn the shooting of a policeman this morning will raise an eyebrow if they hear the same party leader address the SF Ard Fheis and note the lavish praise heaped on the hard men of violence. SF is a growing force in the Republic's politics but that can wither away just as easily if there is a credible alternative clearly democratic left of centre party.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279487#Comment_120279487

Why would any Soc Dems TD join a toxic brand like Lavpur though? It really doesn't make sense at all.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279440#Comment_120279440

I'm asking you to back up your claim that "I'm pretty sure all the polling beforehand strongly indicated both proposals would pass". You're saying that FG (in this case) paid 'lip service' by only running referendums that they were sure would pass. I'm telling you, as someone that was involved in both of those referendums are varying levels, that no one knew they would pass at the time that they were being planned. It was a huge risk for FG, and particularly for FF, where Martin had to deal with the majority of his TDs campaigning against him and the referendum.

These were brave decisions by both FF and FG that significantly improved Ireland as a place to live for many people.

I'm not going to get dragged into a broader discussion. I'm first to criticise FF and FG for many of the things they've done and not done.

But to say that they 'paid lip service' is factually untrue.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279260#Comment_120279260

Yeah , the lady from Achill island being one of the more high profile examples ( McHugh )

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279568#Comment_120279568

To succeed.

Labour and the Soc Dems can hang together, or hang separately, as they say.

Labour might have some residual toxicity left over from 2011, sure, but the same could be said for FF, FG, Greens and yet there they all are, living on the corridors of power, with the Mercs and the Perks.

A centrist coalition of FG, FF and a newly enlarged Labour could easily get 100 seats in the next Dáil and deny SF the formation of a Government, even if they exceed expectations and top 60 seats.

In fact thats just the plausible scenario that ought make SF supporters turn a bit pale.

We've had the splintering of Irish politics folks, as sure as night follows day, the re-consolidation is coming, albeit with three larger blocks instead of the old two.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279588#Comment_120279588

merlin_138743898_976ffb99-8b04-4cf3-b4dc-9743143a50c4-jumbo.jpg

My crowd's so much bigger than yours.

But you know what, let's just pretend you're correct and say the outcome of these referendums was actually in doubt.

That doesn't mean they weren't taken to attract a youth vote, knowing the older vote was always going to stay FFG.

Now will you deal with my other point? If FFG are such brave, social justice warriors, can you explain then their treatment of the disabled, the elderly and the unhoused?

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279485#Comment_120279485

She won't get the farming vote, that will be a setback if she hopes to be re elected.

Galwayguy35

Cairns is laying it on thick over on Twitter saying how great Shorthall and Murphy are, all BS of course when they were average at best as TDs

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279681#Comment_120279681

You’re crowd aren’t FF TDs. It goes waaaaaaay beyond lip service to drive victory in the two referendums. There was real leadership in both parties that brought many centrist middle aged and older voters out to vote Yes.

And no, I won’t get into your false dichotomy argument about a claim I never made.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279723#Comment_120279723

How is it a false dichotomy?

You claim FFG weren't paying lip service to social issues.

I'm challenging that by showing they've consistently ignored social issues which might involve unpopular decisions or difficult reform.

You're refusing to answer that claim. I'm in no way limiting the argument. You're free to bring anything else you like which answers to my point.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279751#Comment_120279751

The smoking ban was an unpopular decision when it came in because a lot more people were smokers back then yet they went ahead with it knowing it could cost them votes.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279880#Comment_120279880

I don't think it was unpopular overall, I think it was very unpopular with smokers who made a lot of noise, but popular with non-smokers.

And nearly 20 years ago.

But thanks for at least answering my point.

Triangle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120278934#Comment_120278934

Ahhh now come on, they even didn't use the whip on their own TDs for canvassing/supporting it.

From an Indo article at the time:

"Speaking anonymously, one TD said there was "no personal benefit" from the referendum as campaigning for a Yes vote would "upset as many as it pleases".

Your hatred is giving you a false memory.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279880#Comment_120279880

It wasn't really that unpopular.

On the contrary it had great popular support.

It was unpopular with the publicans.

You know them, the ones that are supposed to have the government in their pockets ?

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120279921#Comment_120279921

But where it was unpopular, it wasn't going to cost them votes.

Those who felt strongly against it didn't switch to any of the fringe parties who opposed it and were never likely to.

Whereas it gained a lot of support amongst younger voters. Especially those middle class voters likely to swing to FFG.

MegamanBoo

While I'm happy to continue the argument on FFG paying lip service to social issues...

The point as it relates to the Social Democrats is that smaller parties will struggle even more to compete with larger established parties. Such parties can use to power of social media and data analytics to cherry-pick issues they believe will win them favor with key demographics.

Parties like the Social Democrats no longer solely own the left, liberal, middle-class space.

FFG will target this space, especially for younger demographics, by promising economic growth along with certain social outlooks.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276068#Comment_120276068

Really? Is that how you remember it? Because I remember her showing honour and integrity in the face of cronyism and stroke politics by her FG boss, the worst health minister in the last 25 years. She was Minister of State for Primary Care. Some links might help you remember.

Shortall resigns as minister (irishexaminer.com)

"It is no longer possible for me to fulfil my role as Minister of State for Primary Care because of lack of support for the reforms in the Programme for Government and the values which underpin it.

"The public have a right to expect that decisions on health infrastructure and staffing will be made in the public interest based on health need and not driven by other concerns.

It deepened after Dr Reilly added two towns in his north Dublin constituency to a priority list for the location of new centres.

The original list, based largely on need in poorer areas, had been drawn up by Ms Shortall.

Varadkar: Reilly move ‘like stroke politics’ (irishexaminer.com)

Health Minister James Reilly’s decision to add two sites in his constituency to a list of locations for primary care centres does look like stroke politics, his Cabinet colleague Leo Varadkar has admitted.

“It does look like it. I don’t know if it is or not. You know, you have to trust your colleagues to make the right decisions and make them on the right basis and I do trust Dr Reilly in that regard. But I don’t know all the details.”

Primary care centres - Stroke politics are an insult (irishexaminer.com)

Micheál Martin’s call for the resignation of Health Minister James Reilly over the preferment of two primary care centres in his own constituency would not have sounded so hollow if Mr Martin had had the courage to speak out in government when some of his own colleagues were engaging in the naked preferment of their own constituencies.

Two other areas were also included, following the intervention of government politicians — Kilkenny was included in the list even though it was only ranked in 151st position, while Ballaghaderreen was 244th. Ms Shortall says that she resigned as a junior minister in protest against those four late additions.

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Gilmore did not back his TD because he was too deep in the trough and was eyeing up a cozy EU job (which he still has).

Reilly was also the reason we still don't have a Childrens Hospital and it will cost multiples of the original plan. In 2012 he said it would be built by 2016 for €478 million. More fool you and the taxpayer.

Children's hospital 'can be built in four years' - Independent.ie