The DUP refusing to let Sinn Fein have First Minister means a December Assembly Election. Will the numbers change in a fresh Election?
What parties seats are vulnerable or who might make gains in any constituencies ??
I have a very good memory of history thank you. My point about Thatcher is that she was not weak, she stood by her convictions whatever you may think of her policies.
Thatcher was one of the biggest supporters, if not the orginator, of the Single Market.
We recognised that if Europe was going to be more than a slogan then we must get the basics right. That meant action. [end p9]
Action to get rid of the barriers. Action to make it possible for insurance companies to do business throughout the Community. Action to let people practice their trades and professions freely throughout the Community. Action to remove the customs barriers and formalities so that goods can circulate [end p10] freely and without time-consuming delays. Action to make sure that any company could sell its goods and services without let or hindrance. Action to secure free movement of capital throughout the Community.
All this is what Europe is now committed to do.
So you are calling our "Taoiseach a unionist or their backer"?
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has used the story of an IRA bombing of a customs post to emphasise the importance of the border issue to EU leaders. He warned there must be no customs posts.
https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2018/10/18/news/brexit-leo-varadkar-references-ira-border-bombing-to-emphasise-journey-to-peace-1462338/
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has given European leaders his clearest warning yet that a return to a hard border would threaten a return to violence in Northern Ireland.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-warns-eu-that-hard-border-would-threaten-return-to-violence-1.3668341
As well as demonstrations on the border, there were warnings from extremist Republicans. eg
"Masked New IRA member says Good Friday Agreement is dead and any Brexit border will be a 'target'"
It is amazing how people conveniently forget.
That is from Oct 2019, this is over a year after the PSNI issued their assessment/warning.
Theresa May's Backstop was finalised in November 2018, she could not possibly be responding to that threat, which is what you claimed the British did.
Try again.
Hang on - you said "THe extremist Republicans had promised to return to violence if there was a customs border again in Ireland."
Can you please show us where they made this promise because what you originally claimed has nothing at all to do with Varadkar?
Your link to the fiction in the Mirror is just that (the "New IRA" giving an exclusive interview to a UK gutter rag?). Give us something credible please where someone is actually representing one of the terrorist groups.
I think it was generally accepted there would be a high risk of a return to violence if there were customs posts set up again in South Armagh and all along the border.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/masked-new-ira-member-says-20637994
Thatcher was opposed to any moves to transition the European Economic Community (EEC) into a federal Europe that would take powers away from its members. I think it fair to say throughout her 11 years as British Prime Minister (1979–1990), Margaret Thatcher held ambivalent opinions of the European Community.
So?
There are many opposed to that.
You made a claim that "THe extremist Republicans had promised to return to violence if there was a customs border again in Ireland."
This would imply that such groups are currently active, etc.
Please back up your claim. You have an obvious bias against SF & the IRA (which IMO is fair enough) but I would like to see any claims you make substantiated because I believe that you've been telling porkies. I won't ask again.
Did I not give you the link showing a threat of violece already? Here it is again.
The PSNI was also warned
The IRA is plotting to use any customs posts that emerge near the Irish Border after Brexit as ambush sites where they would lure and..
Quote" They comprise both hard-line veteran republicans who left the Provisionals behind when they renounced violence and younger recruits with no..."
Who was it who said they have'nt gone away you know?
N.B. I never said they are currently active. And Seth, you said I have have "an obvious bias against SF & the IRA". I would like to clarify I am against all violence, and I am just as much against the UVF or UDA etc
“I’m a Conservative, a brexiteer & a Unionist''
This is a familiar line. You usually hear it just before the bus trundles into view.
My post showed that she absolutely did not stand by her convictions on this issue.
I accept your point there. Actions speak louder than words.
Overall I think she done she could, and she wanted peace. I think generally she stood by her convictions, whatever you may think of her policies. It is easy to nit-pick but she was not called the Iron Lady for nothing. Anyway this thread is not on Thatcher, I think it best not to derail this thread by going on about her.
She sounded pretty weak a couple of weeks after signing the AIA, which was the official end of the Unionist veto as John Hume said.
They have been trying to restore it since.
She also regretted signing it in her memoir.
The Agreement was widely rejected by unionists because it gave the Republic of Ireland government a role in the governance of Northern Ireland for the first time ever, and because they had been excluded from the agreement negotiations. The unionists had a large majority of MPs in the North at the time, it was not even close.
Unionists had objected to anything that gave nationalists or republicans an equal say in their affairs ever since they changed the voting system after partition.
The Agreement stood, ending the Unionist veto (see John Hume on this) and paved the way for the GFA, which, the DUP also opposed and have never signed the Multi Party part. Now they are pleading (wrongly) that the GFA save them.
Rubbish. In the eighties when AIA came about, nationalists had just the same democratic rights as unionists. One vote per person. There were a lot more unionists than nationalists or republicans.
In the Dail there was also a lot more FF and FG than Sinn Fein. As you say "Unionists had objected to anything that gave nationalists or republicans an equal say in their affairs", why do you not say "Fianna Failers / Fine Gaels had objected to anything that gave Sinn Feiners (or other minorities ) an equal say in their affairs"?
There was democracy / democratic options available to everyone in the eighties. Not saying the system was perfect anywhere, but in these islands no excuse for violence then.
What an utterly bizarre post!
Why quote my post if the drivel you write does nothing to address my points?
"will posters here accept that it is a major win from the unionist community's fight?"
Is this situation some type of game for you? with winners and losers?
Personally I don't give a flyin' fec about who you or me or anyone else perceive as being winners.
What I want is the DUP to stop threatening the stability of my country. They are bigots who will begrudgingly share power with taigs if they are in the majority and who will make any excuse not to if they are not. You have not and cannot honestly deny this fact. We can debate green lanes /protocols/ sea borders/ ECJ ad infinitum but they are all just a smokescreen for the DUP's bigotry.
I grew up in the North in the 70s and 80s with all that that entailed and for you to simplify the current instability to winners and losers makes me quite angry. You come across as one of these 30 year old Twitter warriors who have never heard the sickening rumble of a bomb or had a 17 year old in full camouflage point a rifle at you.
Wrong again.
The Anglo Irish Agreement introduced the idea of coercive consociationalism or coersive powersharing. Why? Because Unionism would not share power.
It also removed the Unionist veto over policy formation.
It is why they hated it. It removed the suprematist rights they had carved out for themselves since partition.
Fitzgerald hoped it would halt the rise of SF too, but that only worked in the short term. The people as we know decided that one.
To this very day and hour, Unionists are still trying to restore the veto they had before the AIA.
How do you mean in the eighties unionists would not "share power"? You mean let them be in government, even though they were a small minority? There was free elections. If SF went and took their seats in Westminster, they would have had a say there.
Did parties in the Dail who had a majority ever "share power" with anyone unless they needed to, in order to form a government? Yes or no?
You say "What I want is the DUP to stop threatening the stability of my country"
The other side will say what they want is for Republicans to stop threatening the stability of their country. The "armed struggle" done enough damage, and nobody could argue the Brighton bombing etc was not a threat to the stability of the UK. The threat of more violence was enough to get the customers border between Scotland and N.Ireland instead of where the border was.
A function of the AIA was to push Unionists into a power-sharing devolved government. You don't need to push anyone if they are willing.
Don't take my word for it, here's John Hume:
The fundamental change that has taken place as a result of the Anglo-Irish Agreement is a change that is deeply and fully understood by every Unionist. What it means is that their exclusive hold on power has gone and is not coming back. The power of veto on British policy which they have always had, and which goes to the heart of our problem here, has gone and is not coming back. The loss is uncomfortable for their leaders, for while they held that privileged position they never had to be politicians or exercise the art of politics, which is the art of representing one’s own view while treating others with fairness.
*Bold letters mine
Firstly I don't know why you've singled out the Brighton Bombing as an example of a threat to stability. Sure we could go back and forwards for weeks ...
"Them uns did that"
"Ah but the other side did this" etc. etc.
I'm not going to play that game.
What I do take issue with from your post is this ... "The threat of more violence was enough to get the customers border between Scotland and N.Ireland instead of where the border was"
The border wasn't anywhere. There was no border. We were in a much more stable society. Hardline Brexiteers (including the DUP) rejected the Brexit deal that would have meant there was no border required either on our island or in the Irish sea.
So now we've been left with a choice ...
It is the very definition of an absolute no-brainer
Why on earth would any politician ( especially one who fought for the hardest Brexit possible) who should represent the best interests of their constituents choose anything other than option 2?
Oh yeah ... there's a Taig waiting to take the office of 1st Minister.
We can all see what the DUP are doing. It's crystal clear and it has nothing to do with the protocol.
You can get as angry as you like. You are as wrong about the dup refusing to sit with a sf FM as you are about me not living through the 70s ni. Let me assure you I have been formed by the sectarian cleansing of my local community by the PIRA. I absolutely know the rumble of my neighbours house being blown to bits by that group that some people like to sing about now
the dup have stated categorically that they will take up their seats once the protocol is sorted
What planet are you on if you think there is no border on the island of Ireland. I think you haven’t read francies AIA or the gfa
They also stated catergorically that the Protocol/WA was a great deal and the EU should accept it. How did that work out?
We're talking about customs borders of course.
... but I think you knew that didn't you?
We'll see.
I would love to be proved wrong and if I am I won't see it in terms of "winners" and "losers"
If the unique opportunity of free trade with both Britain and the EU is thrown away then everyone will have lost.
So what is it that you think there is no border for? I can’t think of anything that has taxes connected to it. Can you by some of our cheap drink from a wholesaler up north and sell it in the offie in Dublin? I think not
