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Woodland Garden Advice

[Deleted User]

Hello.

I'm want to reduce the grass area of my garden substantially and am hoping to plant only native Irish trees to create a woodland garden or copse for wildlife. The area is relatively small and the house is right in the middle of the site, so need to consider distance to house. The area I want to plant up gets sun most of the day and I'm trying to avoid blocking light in areas I want it and to a neighbour's garden.

This is a list I'm considering. I believe most of these can be trimmed to keep height and spread under control.

Silver Birch

Crab Apple

Hazel

Irish Strawberry

Cherry

Spindle

Guelder Rose

I've attached a very rough map of the area. It's about 75sqm. Area marked in green. This is on the west coast, right by the sea so will get high wind in winter storms. The area is on the more sheltered east side of the house.

Questions:

What type of trees would you recommend?

How many could I fit in this area (spacing)? (I'm thinking about 12-15 trees but would love more and I guess it depends on mix of tree)

How far from the house should I plant to avoid interference with foundations?

What would you do in this situation

All help appreciated. Complete novice when it comes to trees but I'm making a pledge to myself to only plant native Irish plants and trees from now on, and reduce the grass area as much as I can get away with.

Thanks.

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standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123099115#Comment_123099115

Nor me, but given oak, ash, beech, alder, grass and daisies are similarly allergenic we may as well not plant anything.

Sorry poster but seeking a restriction is a bridge too far, it is a native plant.

looksee

I was not aware of that, however i am in rural area and my trees are well away from anyone except us, we don't seem to have a problem with it.

OscarMIlde

Regarding Birch, it's one of the most allergenic species of plant there is.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36523114/#:~:text=Birch%20pollen%20is%20one%20of,seen%20at%20various%20allergy%20centers. If you are in an urban area, with a lot of neighbours, perhaps consider not planting it. I have allergic asthma and during pollen season (basically Feb-September for me) I often have to take my inhaler up to 14 times a day, along with multiple anti histamines, and my asthma is not even fully controlled. I know it is a native tree, but considering the allergenicity of it, I don't know why there aren't restrictions on where it can be grown.

looksee

In theory you can plant bare roots till March, but in reality they will probably be all gone by then. Buy small trees, whips, they will establish better than bigger ones, won't need staking and catch up quickly. You do need to protect from rabbits though, they regard baby trees as a nice treat.

Duarte

Sounds beautiful.

dmcdona

I just read through the thread and see other recent posts are looking to do similar. I'm also looking to do similar but I might run out of time this season.

I'm going to pop on an orchard of about 25 native Irish apple trees in one part of the garden and in another area I'm going to chance my arm with native Irish pine (we have limestone paving a la The Burren). Not so sure of the spacing for that so will need to do the research. Our local garden centre has said they can get them.

On the previous posts, I think a couple of apple trees would go well, perhaps at the edges. They can be chosen by final height as well - I'd imagine half standard wouldn't have a massive root system.

As an aside, what's the latest for putting in bare roots?

magicbastarder

Are you looking to create a small patch of woodland, rather than 'just' plant some native trees for interest? What sort of space do you have?

paddylonglegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122860528#Comment_122860528

also looking at doing similar.

This is a really good time of year to get bare root trees. Good value to be had.

randomguy

OP, I am thinking of doing something similar (planting out what is currently a back lawn in a terraced house into a copse or at least with some native trees). How did you get on? Any photos?

Day Lewin

I have a mini-woodland that includes a little group of just 4 hazel trees: about 10 years old and maybe 2.5 meters tall, the space under and between them is already a dappled grove.

Also hazels throw out long straight rods that can be used for many purposes; and they are pretty at all seasons. Even edible nuts, if you're lucky!

The Irish word for hazel "Coll" is the root of the word for a wood "coill" - which reveals that hazel was our mainstay all-purpose tree - it will grow almost anywhere. So if you are going for a group, do consider the hazel.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262763#Comment_120262763

Yes, that's definitely my concern with Birch. I don't think I'll go with them en masse for that very reason. One or two at further points from all houses should be ok.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262763#Comment_120262763

Tbh i'd be more thinking of Himalayan varieties in this situation, it's ok to bend the rules a little and the wildlife don't seem to notice the difference!

magicbastarder

worth mentioning that i have a birch in my garden which the previous owner planted in 1989 or 1990, and it's probably 20m tall - your neighbour might not be happy with something that can grow tall near their house, even without the roots being an issue.

when it starts dropping seeds, it's like snow. you find them in your underwear, in your cornflakes, etc. etc.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262046#Comment_120262046

Very good idea and coincidentally yesterday I was taking a walk through a local wood doing just that. The height and breath of some trees, when you play close attention, is huge - so need to bear in mind. I think I'll focus on 1-2 varieties first and see how I fare.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262237#Comment_120262237

Good point and I will certainty be keeping far from their walls. The map isn't very accurate and their house is a little further than the boundary line would suggest. I'm definitely leaning now toward the groups of same tree as you suggest, first. Thanks.

wildwillow

Can I put a dampener on this. The neighbour’s house seems to right up to the fence so you need to keep roots away from that too. Give it the same distance as from your house to avoid problems with their foundations and drains.

You might be better doing a group of the same tree as far away as you can from the houses. Use native shrubs to fill in the rest, or add some small fruit trees which you can share with wildlife.

Apologies if I’ve misread the map.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120262023#Comment_120262023

Nope was just going by the op's list which includes an elder.

There is a well behaved and slow growing alder variety called incana 'aurea' though which is worth seeking out if the op wanted to have the set as it were.

HazeDoll

OP, do you know what I'd do in your position? I'd look around for a patch of woodland I like the look of in your area and I'd copy it! Make note of the mix of trees, how they're spaced etc.

I wish I had done that earlier in the process here!

HazeDoll

I'm not sure if the talk of elder is a response to my contribution but the area I'm so fond of at my own place is alder, not elder.

standardg60

Good advice above, personally I'd use 7 to 9 birch as the mainstay and then intersperse single species of the rest, bar crab apple which I'd plant elsewhere as a single tree too.

Wouldn't be keen on elder personally, as it's likely to seed and take over due to it's speed of growth.

looksee

Much as I like rowan I have a theory that they do better (in terms of berries etc) at a bit of altitude. Nothing dramatic but if foxgloves, heather and ferns (as against bracken) grow naturally in an area the rowans seem to do well. They can also get quite big, any that I have are bigger than the alders, and I reckon they are the same age (approx 20 years I think). In limited space I'd probably steer away from elder too, they make big sprawling scruffy bushes, though the flowers and fruit are nice. I think I would go for silver birch, holly, crab apple (that gives you an elegant group of birches, a nice bold green of the holly, and berries, and the spring flowers and later fruit of the apple) Then add in an under storey of guelder rose, hazel and a strawberry tree - two deciduous bushes and an evergreen.

HazeDoll

I'd probably have mostly birch with maybe three or four rowan at one end. Once they get established I'd encourage ferns and bluebells on the forest floor.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261503#Comment_120261503

That's very interesting. I'd love to have 7 acres.

Unfortunately I have about 75 square meters. Maybe a little more.

If you were to choose one or two of the trees from my list and plant only those (in my small plot), which would you go for?

HazeDoll

Something to consider is that while variety is nice, a copse of a single type of tree is very effective.

I have areas where, in the early stages of planting, I put in a hodgepodge of different trees. I regret doing that because the places where I grouped a single species together are much more pleasing. I'm not a fan of alder at all but I have an area that's mostly alder and it's one of the nicest parts.

I have birches that have really come on in the last two years and every time I pass through them I think that in another year or two it will be heavenly.

I've planted about seven acres and it hasn't all been successful but one of the things I've learned is that grouping trees together works best.

When you see pictures of beautiful woodland it's usually mostly single-species with one or two other trees.

SuperBowserWorld

Wish you the best of luck with this.

Sounds beautiful.

magicbastarder

i don't think there's any danger of yew poisoning from having the trees growing in your garden; people aren't usually given to eating trees,.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260584#Comment_120260584

Good advice re Yew. Probably not worth it, given I'm not a major fan anyway!

Re Birch, yes if space allows I'd like small clusters of most of the trees but might not be possible.

looksee

I'd suggest leaving out the Yew, you are in a pretty built up area and Yew is very toxic. I know its not something local kids are likely to graze on and you don't have livestock, but still. I like to see silver birches in little groves with a bit of space round them, but that's just me.

[Deleted User]

OK. I think based on all the feedback, I'll be considering the following. I think they're all of the right height or below. Just need to think about the location/distribution. I'll do some bare root and some from potted. I have a few jobs to do to clear the site and I might fence it off a little and also get tree protectors. Will chart progress, once I get going.

Any issue with this list with location being Atlantic coast, 200m from the sea?

Rowan (x 1)

Silver Birch (x 1)

Strawberry (1-2)

Common Hawthorn (1)

Crab Apple (1)

Hazel (3-6 : plant in clusters)

Holly (2 m+f)

Spindle (1-2)

Guelder Rose (1)

Elder (1)

Native Wild Flowers throughout + snowdrops etc. for winter/spring.

Might put a Yew tree in, just to complete the set. Possibly get a heritage Irish Apple tree from the likes of Seed Savers too. (not necessarily in this particular section of garden - other areas could have some specifically placed single trees.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120260166#Comment_120260166

Indeed. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to start the practical bit yet but will do what I can between now and next season to prepare and hit the ground running.

magicbastarder

It's still bare root season.