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Clarity on reporting posts and on what defines a racial slur

Jequ0n

First of all: I don't intend this as an attack on specific people, nor do I want it to be a pile on.

Can we get some clarity if the term "gammon" is racist or not please? I see it being used by some posters on this site and it frequenrly leads to debates whether it is a racial slur or not. Personally, I can't see how it can be seen as anything but a racial slur since it is directly linked to skin colour, but I'd be interested if there is an official Boards stance so the debate can be settled for once.

Secondly, and somewhat related to the first point: how do we report posts by mods/ C mods that we believe are falling foul of the charter? I have reported posts in the past and it simply led to the mod changing their post to remove the part I had reported, because they happened to be a mod in the forum that the thread was in. To be honest, I can only see this being an issue in cases where mods are prolifically posting in their own fora which they are supposed to mod.

I can provide a link to the thread/ the debate in question for context, but I don’t really want this to turn into a witch hunt.

It would be good to know how to report these cases as it seems pointless that our reports are being sent directly to the people who we are complaining about.

I am posting this on the back on having received a warning point for having questioned moderation on thread. I am not appealing for this warning to be lifted, but I think that it will be more beneficial to get clarity on the above as there are others who have similar questions.

Thanks

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EmmetSpiceland

I, personally, wouldn’t have thought gammon was racist. It’s basically a synonym, another way of saying, “red faced”.

I always saw it as applying to middle aged, or older, men, it’s usually men, who get themselves all “wound up” over the changing world. This angry makes their face go red and look like gammon, a dark pink/reddish colour. Some may even turn puce.

Wouldn’t see it as a permanent thing, unless the person involved has some sort of high blood pressure “issue”. If that’s the case they should really be avoiding any situation that gets them all “riled up”.

It may not be a flattering “descriptor” but it’s a far cry from being a racist slur.

pjohnson

"Gammon" would be about as racist a term as "Snowflake"

StrawbsM

It is an insult that is dished out based on a persons skin colour.

odyssey06

It applies only to men. Based on age. And a physical characteristic based on their racial skin colour.

All three of these are protected characteristics.

Some people flush like this, nothing to do with being riled up about politicial opinions.

It is being used to support ad hominen attacks, braindead sloganisation and insults as the basis for debate rather than engaging with actual substance.

If gammon is acceptable then throwing out similar slur about other ethnic groups based on a physical characteristic is also ok.

Are we going to allow similar slurs about black people and white teeth, asian people and eyes?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

As far as I'm aware I've never used the word "gammon" in relation to anyone else but I can't help but laugh at the irony of gammonese people crying foul and claiming that it's a racist term, when they themselves tell anyone who points out their own bigotry to get over it, "you can't say nothing nowadays" and so on and so forth.

Being a gammon is like being a boomer: you don't need to have been born immediately after WWII in order to be a boomer, similarly you don't need bright pink features with bulging red eyes to be a gammon. They're a state of mind. Obviously I don't press those points too much during the cut and thrust of spirited debate, inflexibility about the "strict definition" of words and sticking religiously to them is the hallmark of the boomer/gammon.

The whole "gammon is racist" stuff reminds me of Ulster Scots in the North, where the Unionists saw that the minority Nationalist population were asking for offical recognition of the Irish language so the Unionists invented a language to claim for some extra rights for themselves. The Unionists don't believe Ulster Scots is a real language, and the people who are crying about "gammon" being racist don't actually believe that it is racist. They just want those extra "privileges" the minorities have for themselves too.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058284333/clarity-on-reporting-posts-and-on-what-defines-a-racial-slur

Mod posts can and should be reported like any other. Mods should never take mod action on any posts of their own that are reported, and we also discourage mods from taking action in discussions that they have been actively involved in, even if the report is not against their post, but this can be difficult to avoid at times.

If you think a mod has abused their mod powers then you should flag this to the relevant Category Mod (via pm) who can investigate.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242868#Comment_120242868

Thanks. And if it relates to a c mod do we contact an admin?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242932#Comment_120242932

Yes.

[Deleted User]

I don't think it's racist - just unimaginative, like Karen, boomer, snowflake and SJW.

[Deleted User]

I learn something new every day. Never heard of the word “gammon” outside of a culinary context, had to Google it. 🙂

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242746#Comment_120242746

Is Red a race now??? Because that's the skin colour in question.

Also, on this site I'd say it's almost exclusively used by white people. Can it be considered a racial slur in that context? I'd have to say no. That would be like claiming black people calling eachother the N word is racist, when it's patently not.

MrStuffins

The type of person to claim "gammon" as racist is the same type of person to turn up to a Garda Station with Graham Carey and use the word "unvetted" over and over.

Racism, in most forms, is when you use predjudice or make claims against someone that you attribute towards them AS A RESULT of them being part of a race or ethnic group.

Saying "Gammon" does not meet this criteria. And claiming it as racism is extremely pathetic!

facehugger99

I know some woke-lad was recently made a Mod and, as seems to be common with these so-called liberals, promptly tried to shut down debate on a load of threads he didn't agree with.

But going after him on the 'gammon' comment is pure stupid too.

Glaceon

I'd usually be the first to call out double standards but I disagree in this case. I've only ever seen 'gammon' used to refer to angry Brits, usually the type who want Johnny Foreigner out yet voted for Brexit from their Spanish retirement villas. Bigoted maybe but I wouldn't consider it racist.

banie01

Gammon IMO isn't a racist term, nor is it a gendered one.

It's a synonym with red-faced anger or rage, it does a job of both illustrating the red-faced anger that some folk work themselves up to. Much like Karen, Snowflake, boomer and zoomer are a descriptive shorthand for some demographic cohorts, it serves a purpose.

I do find it odd that anyone complaining about being labelled a gammon? Would take the snowflake path of seeking the word labelled as a racist pejorative? Rather than confront the behaviour that led to the label being applied?

The, traditional, conservative, fúck your feelings and anti-woke bandwagon that is so often the party labelled as Gammon, are the same ones claiming that it's offensive and racist? If their own words are just words? If the power ascribed to the word Gammon, is a pointed, direct and hurtful slur upon them?

Perhaps they could reflect upon what led to someone calling them Gammon in the 1st place?

osarusan

If somebody was to do an analysis of the word and collect data on who was being described each time it was used, I think that the data would indicate 99%+ white people (and probably 90%+ men).

If that did turn out to be the case, I think it'd be difficult to argue that usage has nothing to do with race, even if it's generally used specifically to describe the flushed face of a ranting conservative.

MrStuffins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243569#Comment_120243569

Only if you don't actually know how racism is defined.

Jequ0n

Look, I asked the question because I thought it’s specifically aimed at a specific group of people (one defining feature being the skin colour). If it’s not a racial slur then so be it, but it sounds like everyone has a different opinion here.

@facehugger99 this wasn’t aimed at a newly appointed mod at all.

odyssey06

By means of comparison, how is Gammon different to these as a race based stereotype and racialized cariacature.

Would we allow these phrases?

Banana, Coconut, and Twinkie are pejorative terms, primarily used for Asian Americans who are perceived to have been assimilated and acculturated into mainstream American culture and who do not conform to typical South Asian or East Asian cultures.

Uncle Tom:

Also see the Emmy Award-winning 1987 documentary film Ethnic Notions by Black gay filmmaker Marlon Riggs narrated by actor Esther Rolle. The documentary narrates the history and legacy of the dehumanizing effects of African-American stereotypes and racializing caricatures from the "Loyal Uncle Tom" to grinning fools (see Stepin Fetchit) in cartoons, minstrel shows, advertisements, household artifacts, and even children's rhymes.

(refs taken from Wikipedia)

tjhook

There are insults that are based on those physical characteristics (or behaviours) that can be most commonly found among black people. I'd be uncomfortable using such terms at all, and I think it's a sign of ignorance to casually throw them around in a discussion.

To be consistent, I'd think the same applies to "gammon". If one of these is permitted, then I think it would be difficult/inconsistent to ban the other. And I'm not sure I'd be bothered engaging in such a forum.

As for black people calling eachother the "N word", I don't think it's relevant. In the context of Boards, it's not feasible to have lists of people who are allowed to use different terms. And I'd like to think Boards wouldn't get into categorising people/races into groups to which pejorative terms can be applied, and groups to which they can't.

All just my opinion obviously. The term "gammon" doesn't wind me up, I'd just like to see consistency.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243621#Comment_120243621

Because gammon isn't used as a pejorative against white people because they are white. it is used against people with particular traits.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243652#Comment_120243652

It isn't used against "people" with particular traits though is it? It is used against white people. How else can you be a gammon except red cheeks on white skin?

Gammon is used in similar ways to:

Banana, Coconut, and Twinkie are pejorative terms, primarily used for Asian Americans who are perceived to have been assimilated and acculturated into mainstream American culture and who do not conform to typical South Asian or East Asian cultures.

Banana and Twinkie refer to a person being perceived as 'yellow on the outside, white on the inside', while Coconut is used to refer to darker-skinned Asians, such as those from South Asia or the Philippines.

It is used against white people with particular physical traits, and usually age based as well.

So it is a race based cariacature.

It is a slur based on protected characteristics.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243663#Comment_120243663

it is a behaviour based caricature. Being an anti-immigrant bigot is a not a protected characteristic.

Shield

This is a great example of context, context, context.

If it’s said between friends in a jokey manner, then no, it’s clearly not a slur.

If it’s said in anger, hate, or in an otherwise demeaning way, then there is precedent (albeit across the water) for it to be recorded and investigated as a hate crime. Google EP-20180519-0726 for the complaint details.

Is it racist? The answer is it depends on who you ask. It seems to be one of those things that gels, or doesn’t, with people of a political persuasion. The Guardian would have you believe it’s a perfectly fine utterance:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/14/gammon-not-racial-slur-change-conversation

…whereas GQ assert that it’s hate speech, comparing it to ‘the k word’ for Jews:

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/what-does-gammon-mean

Back to the OP, I don’t think you’re going to get a definite yes or no to this because it’s such a fluid word, but the final word on this is outside my pay grade.

-Shield

Dial Hard

Some of you are really reaching here.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120242688#Comment_120242688

White men though , it’s used to dismiss peoples opinion on the basis of a combination of age and skin colour

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243673#Comment_120243673

Then just call them that if that's what you think they are.

It is not based on behaviour alone. It clearly references skin colour.

They are not being called gammon because that's the choice of sunday dinner.

How else can you be a gammon except by having red cheeks on white skin?

It is race based stereotyping.

Leg End Reject

Wasn't there uproar before about "Karen" being used to describe the female equivalent?

I don't think that was ever deemed offensive or actioned.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243690#Comment_120243690

By that logic "Karen" is also a racist (and sexist) slur as it's predominantly used to refer to white women but I don't see anyone advocating for that to be proscribed.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243706#Comment_120243706

Actually, it was once argued that it was misogynistic, but nothing came of that.