Kerry Senior Hurling final kicks off the county final season this coming weekend
The other argument is that the error was also compounded by the officials not doing their job correctly. And it not solely K. Crokes job to wholly officiate. That is the officials job.
So by K. Crokes accepting a replay it would appear as if they were accepting 100% of the blame which they are obviously not prepared to do.
Plus Glen must realise that the error did not truly affect the result. And they would only be getting another chance by an error which did not impact the result.
But again the decision should not have been left in the hands of the clubs. CLG should have assessed the situation giving some sort of definitive viewpoint.
The 'wider implication' of them not launching an objection was that the result would have stood despite a clear breaking of the GAA's rules.
Pulling out of the process once that principle had been established and upheld was quite legitimate as the ruling hasn't changed. If you break the rules you will be ordered to replay the game.
That is a misreading of the rules. There is no compunction on the GAA to make a ruling in the absence of an objection. It is one of two options, and in my opinion they chose correctly in the knowledge that any ruling they made over the heads of the clubs would result in an objection. If Glen chose not to object, they would have done so as you say in the knowledge that Crokes would keep the title. What is the point of not pursuing it when they did raise the objection?
Penalties: On a proven Objection - Award of Game to the Opposing Team, or Replay, or Fine, depending on the circumstances. On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge - Forfeiture of Game without Award of Game to the Opposing Team, or Replay, or Fine, depending on the circumstances
The rule provides for remedies other than a replay so your last statement is incorrect.
The point is that the rules were upheld. I fancy the rule that the GAA cannot intervene when there is a clear breach of the rules will now come under scrutiny and possible review. Let clubs object if they wish. In this case the hard evidence was there for all to see.
Glen withdrew when it was clear Crokes were going to try and get around that compelling evidence.
Keep the cup if it is that important to you. Kinda like how you would deal with a sulking child really.
They can intervene, but why use it when it would result in an objection anyway? The rule is suitable vague by having the "depending on the circumstances" clause, and any decision should give consideration to the circumstances in each case.
The process is there for Crokes to lodge an appeal to "get around" the ruling. Did Glen not realise this before they started the process? And did they not realise that one of the possible outcomes, a replay, would not suit them before they started?
The outcome of all this is thus.
The GAA ordered a replay because the result was not valid under the rules. Whether that replay took place or not is immaterial TBH. A principle of the game has been upheld. And that is, or should be, important to us all.
There is no principle involved, just a rule break which was being dealt with by the established process. It should have been let continue until the end.
The principle that a rule break gets a sanction was upheld.
The sanction being the nullifying of the result implicit in oprdering a replay.
That was the point of the objection and it succeeded in upholding the rules.
Glen basically told Crokes to keep the cup if it was that important to them.
The 'win' is now tainted and there will be a big asterix symbol after the year on the winners chart.
The game is not being replayed - the result stands - I'm neutral and not connected to Crokes, but you do seam to have a bit resentment towards Crokes
The result of that game would have stood regardless. However those who know, will know that it was achieved by breaking the rules and that the GAA upheld this view and ordered the game to replayed.
Whenever cheating is mentioned this game will be too. That's the legacy for the Crokes. Sometimes you have to be brave to ensure your legacy has integrity.
as a neutral, I would not see it as cheating , no doubt they were time wasting , and it back fired ; but as I have said repeatedly the referee has a lot of responsibity for not re-taking the play - thats it.
It is not a principle, it is a rule. There is no mention of the word principle in the GAA Rules Part 1. There are three mentions of the word principle, two of them in the paragraph below taken from the Ethos section. The other reference in an Appendix is to the principles espoused by Dr Croke and the other founding fathers.
"1.12 Anti-Sectarian/Anti-Racist The Association is Anti-Sectarian, Anti-Racist and committed to the principles of inclusion and diversity at all levels. Any conduct by deed, word, or gesture of sectarian or racist nature or which is contrary to the principles of inclusion and diversity against a player, official, spectator or anyone else, in the course of activities organised by the Association, shall be deemed to have discredited the Association."
6.44 is simply a rule about the number of players, and more. Objections lodged under this or any rule are not setting a new principle, merely following long established procedure. There is no option to Nullify a result. (this is a copy and paste, and a bit jumbled in places)
6.44 Rules of Specification and Control - Penalties Penalties for breaches of the above Rules shall be as follows: (a) A team failing to field fifteen players, inclusive of players ordered off or retired injured, by the start of the second half of a game: Penalty : Forfeiture of Game and Award to the Opposing Team. (b) (i) A team exceeding the number of players permitted under Rule 2.1 Rules of Specification, Playing Rules: (ii) A team exceeding the number of substitutions permitted under Rules 2.4 (i) and (ii) or breaching Rule 2.4 (iv) (b), Rules of Specification, Playing Rules: Penalties: On a proven Objection - Award of Game to the Opposing Team, or Replay, or Fine, depending on the circumstances. On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge - Forfeiture of Game without Award of Game to the Opposing Team, or Replay, or Fine, depending on the circumstances. (c) (i) Failure to provide a list of Players as specified in Rule: (ii) A Substitution (including a Temporary Substitution) being made of a player whose name is not supplied to the Referee or the Sideline Official, as appropriate, and as specified in Rule: (iii) In Inter-County games, a Substitution, (including a Temporary Substitution) being made of a player whose name is not on the list of Players supplied to the Referee: Penalty: On an Inquiry by the Committee-in-Charge - Forfeiture of Game, without Award to the Opposing Team, or Fine, depending on the circumstances. (d) Late Fielding. (i) A team taking the field late before game: Penalties: County or Provincial - Fine €100; Club Fine €20 - for every five minutes or part thereof up to 15 minutes, and thereafter for every minute or part thereof up to 30 minutes. For over 30 minutes after the appointed Starting Time, the Game shall be considered as conceded and shall be Awarded to the Opposing Team, unless exceptional circumstances prevail. (ii) (a) A team responsible for a half time interval being exceeded as specified in Rules 3.3 and 3.7 Rules of Specification: Chapter 6 GA MES & COMPETITIONS 119 Penalties: County or Provincial - Fine €80 for every minute or part thereof; Club - Fine €10 for every minute or part thereof. (b) A team responsible for an Interval period allowed being exceeded by more than 10 minutes: Penalty: Forfeiture of Game and Award to the Opposing Team. (iii) A team(s) failing to field for obligatory extra time, within the specified minutes: Penalty: Forfeiture of Game and Award to the Opposing Team. (e) For unauthorised entry onto the field of play by a Team Official. Penalty: 4 weeks Suspension. (f) Jerseys/Colours: (i) A County team not wearing its registered distinctive colours in Inter-County competitions, or where there is a similarity of colours not wearing their registered alternative colours or other colours authorised or directed by the Controlling Council: Penalty: Fine €500. (ii) A Club team not wearing its registered distinctive club colours in Inter-Club Competitions, or where there is a similarity of colours, not wearing alternative colours approved by the Controlling Committee. Penalty: Clubs shall be liable to a minimum of €40 fine. (iii) The goalkeeper not wearing a jersey, which is distinctive from his own team’s and the opposing team’s colours: Penalty: Fine €80.
Case closed and not an asterisk in sight as the CCCC "had made it clear this was not a deliberate action and that no fault was attributed to Kilmacud Crokes for the situation they found themselves in" but no doubt @FrancieBrady will continue to live in denial and spout his conspiracy theories 😋
https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/kilmacud-crokes-formally-awarded-2023-aib-all-ireland-club-sfc/
The GAA wanting to tidy things up (that is their go to position with everything) doesn't change the facts of the game.
KC won the game with 17 players on the field, which is a breach of the rules of the game. No awarding of the tournament will ever change that.
End of. You can keep up the 'denial' of that but those are the facts and are not a 'conspiracy'.
There'll be no asterisk on any match programme or any winners' list that you pick up in the future. It sounds like a good thing to say right now but we all know it's nuts to pretend to actually believe it.
Will be mentioned forever more when these discussions come up. Just look at this thread and all the previous disputed results/transgressions.
They were forced to make some decision by Glen refusing to take part in the replay. I have seen games where there were more than 15 players, when subs went on the field to join in a melee. That would be an equal breach of the rules, and would forever taint the result of that game.
And?
And their decision will be judged right or wrong by different people. The right decision in my view would have been a fine. But it was a disgrace for Glen to pull out of the process before it concluded.
the CCCC "..made it clear this was not a deliberate action and that no fault was attributed to Kilmacud Crokes for the situation they found themselves in"
Case closed. Well done to Crokes.
By implication it does put the entire blame on the officials. Which if fair enough by the rules, as the ref is the only one with the power to restart play.
It was moral cowardice and a disgrace that Crokes didn't immediately accept what the CCCC found and offer a replay.
It was always going to be that outcome. A replay would have been a farce and no way to win/lose a title.
Now that the Club Championships 2022/23 have concluded, this thread will go dormant soon enough. And there won't be a word about the football final once the CCCC decision has had a couple of days media attention. Put it down to human error and move on.
Congratulations to Kilmacud Crokes, now unequivocally declared champions in a way that absolutely cannot be denied.
It is disappointing that Glen started a complaints process and then did not have the strength of their convictions to follow through, but I can excuse them as they were probably egged on by the disingenuous peanut gallery.
Of course it will fade away as an event. But it won't fade from memory much and all as some would like.
And with that, I will fade away. Thanks to all who discussed the issue and kept it civil.
Congrats to Crokes, deserving winners on the day. Pity the referee and his team screwed up. 45 should have been re taken, otherwise he had a great game.
Given the CCCC found that "no fault was attributed to Kilmacud Crokes for the situation they found themselves in" why on earth would they voluntarily offer Glen a replay?
Moral cowardice? 😂😂😂
Don't ever change Francie.
Enoch Burke isn't your real name by any chance?
