Should apply to certain posters here.
Seems the analogy went right over your head.
If Ireland got invaded by England they were bombing the whole country to rubble, killing endless amounts of people, I'd happily give up Cork or elsewhere to get peace. Zelensky isn't even willing to allow them Crimea. Life is more important than land at the end of the day.
It's very easy to say keep fighting when you're thousands of miles away behind a computer screen.
That's just my opinion, no one might agree with me at all, and that's fine.
We'd all give up Cork to get a bit of peace but that's not the point...
So you give them Cork to get peace today (Putting aside the fact that the VAST majority of Ukranians do not want to cede territory for peace). Then tomorrow England demand Tipperary? Do you hand over that for peace? Ok so you give them that. Next year they want your house? Your farm? Your wife? Hand it all over. Sure, life is more important at the end of the day.
Zelensky doesn't want to hand over Crimea for good reason. Because he knows exactly what will happen if Putin is allowed to gain territory through military aggression.It has already happened, Putin wasn't punished enough in 2014 and here we are. It validates using violence as a means of changing your countries borders. The largely peaceful democratic western values, you know, the ones that underpin your ability to post your contrasting opinions on boards at all? They melt away under such peace.
It may just be your opinion but opinions can be wrong. And speaking historically, ethically and logically yours is wrong. Sorry.
Yeahh ...... No dude.... just no
Ukraine will not be able to enter the EU as their borders are not secure.
Nonsense, Ireland joined the EU with a territorial claim over Northern Ireland. Spain joined with a territorial claim over Gibraltar. Spain and Portugal currently have 18km of officially undefined border around the disputed town of Olivenza/Olivença. Croatia and Serbia have an ongoing border dispute along the Danube. There's other examples too.
There's nothing in the EU's Conditions of Membership that says you can't have a border dispute with a neighbour.
You don't get to give up Cork though.
What are russia's terms for ending a war they've been losing?
Why would Ukraine accept any losses of territory when russia has been so feeble at attacking?
Show you're not just another russian shill, critical thought time.
He's probably making the military decisions, which just underlines how great Zelensky is that he delegates to those who are better than him in their area of expertise. Putin in contrast tried to take direct control of military operations and it didn't go well.
Lmao if true.
The 'actor as politician' thing is interesting - all that people expected or hoped for from Zelensky when he was elected was that he wouldn't be corrupt. He was elected more as a protest against endemic corruption than anything else.
Then the war came. And he morphed into the most admired person in the world, Time Person of the Year, and an inspirational leader who knows how to use his position to get the most out of his allies, his military and his people. A complete contrast to Putin.
Did any Ukrainians see this metamorphosis coming? Absolutely not and I'm sure not even Zelensky himself knew he was capable of it. But he is playing the role brilliantly and drawing upon all of his life experience to do so.
He's not the first actor turned politician - Reagan of course being the most prominent example before him. We tend to remember him in his last couple of years in the White House but he was a very effective politician and was named 'the Great Communicator' for a very good reason. Zelensky, although very different in some ways, is cut from a similar pattern. Interestingly, both of them would have been regarded as 'B' actors!
If that's the way it worked, Britain wouldn't even have to invade and bomb us to get Cork. The mere threat of it should be enough for you to hand it over, to prevent any killing in the first place. But of course, it's total nonsense. You don't actually care about Ukrainian lives at all.
It's also striking that you don't hold Russia up to the same ethical rules that you hold Ukraine up to. Ukraine should cede land and people to an aggressor stop the killing, but nowhere are you arguing that Russia should stop being the aggressor in the first place. Very telling.
Alaska was once part of Russia.
If Putin decided tomorrow that he was going to take back Alaska do you think the Americans would just let him walk in? Do you think they would give up Alaska to save lives?
If your answer is no then why should Ukraine give up land after they were invaded?
Would the people of Cork get a say in this? I presume you don't live there which is convenient.
What county do you live in?
syrian and Ukr situation are as different as chalk and cheese re 5/10 years war. Why? You have two well resourced participants in Syria on one side ie Ru and the Syrian Gov and a ragged gaggle group on the other side lead by local militias or something equivalent - a kind of gorilla group. The overall structure there ‘encourages’ the continuation of the war there. I
there is a totally different ‘structure’ in Ukr and I do not think that The US, Germany, Ukr, NATO , EU will allow Russia to keep the war going and will, through joint efforts come up with some way of ending it within the next year or two.
Coяk, maybe?
That would be great if we thought they'd end up with Cork and we'd all be friends again but Putin already had Crimea and he still wanted to topple the government in Ukraine and put in a puppet regime friendly to Russia.
Your falling into the trap of thinking that Russia is an honest broker, they are not. If they succeded in taking Ukraine his sights would be on Moldova next.
When do you say enough is enough? As posters have said previously Russia needs to be completely and comprehensively defeated on the battleground. If Russia was proving to be a half-competent army with the ability to properly equip train and deploy its vast army then i would say this conflict could drag on for years but i can see a complete collapse if their spring offensive fails and if they continue to throw mean and material into combat with scant regard for losses then there is only one outcome.
The people of Cork wouldn't even be living there in a war situation as they'd be in France or somewhere seeking refuge.
Thankfully we had men of better stature than yourself back in the day and we overcame that situation.
Sell cork to the Chinese,call it reparations for killing the Big Fella ,
Actually Syria was the reverse of Ukraine: in Syria Russia was backing the incumbent regime and the US/Western allies were arming and backing the rebels.
They are incomparable post Feb 22 as now its 2 nations going head to head instead of via proxy militias alone
We did?
The Irish fought for Irish independence....they didn't get it, they left NI behind.
Grand so. Sure the next time you're out of town I'll hop into your house and help myself to your family and worldly belongings. That's fine and dandy by your logic.
You don't get a say in the matter if you want to keep the peace.
Bonkers logic.
Oh I got the feeble attempt alright but you need to work on making your analogies more relatable to the target audience. Subsistence farming has not been a thing in Ireland for a couple of generations now. It's funny that you would try to build your analogy on such an archaic practice, unless maybe it is not archaic where you come from.
"Your falling into the trap of thinking that Russia is an honest broker, they are not."
I don't think that poster's falling into any trap.
Had a chat there with England, they said if we send you, your kids, wife and parents over they'll trade for Cork, what do ya say ? sounds like a good plan. We'll sacrifice you to save us. comrad.
Anything that affects Switzerland's Financial status will get their immediate and undivided attention. There will be no four or five year wait to win military contracts back, neutrality or not.
Cork no! Dublin maybe?
You see, in non-dictatorship countries like Ukraine, it is normal for ministers to have a certain amount of autonomy but still act in agreement with the leader.
And if we had the US and the rest of Europe loading us with high quality munitions we'd have got the rest. We got what we got with shag all bar guts and from not rolling over, but you think you'd be getting your belly tickled so you'd throw in the towel at the first sign of trouble. I'm sure that would give you solace when they were pulling your fingernails out with a pliers.
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