Lets be honest here. You could swap EU and NATO in the above and it would still be true. Neither NATO or the EU have taken the lead, nor have either outshone the other. It is the response of individual countries that has differed and not the Umbrella organisations of which they are prt.
USA/UK and its allies the EU and then NATO have taken leading roles.
Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Czech republic, Bulgaria and Slovakia and their EU and Nato allies have taken the leading roles.
We know this I could have posted a full list but gave the gist.
Somebody linked the text for the Budapest memorandum earlier in the thread and there's absolutely nothing in it that states that the US has to act in defense of Ukraine. The text literally states that the US promises it won't attack Ukraine, which it didn't.
It's all Nato,
Weapons, defense, Anti aircraft it's only happening because those countries who are supplying equipment including ISAR and live aerial reconnisence which goes straight to the Tanks are being sent by Nato members with Nato support.
Why do you think every few weeks we have a Rammstein conference,
To organize the next supply of weapons and vehicles
It's only because of the umbrella they're currently under that the weapons,be it anti aircraft to tanks to AWACS Aircraft over head 24/7 .
Not the individual state,if we didn't have Nato we would be Still wondering when the eu was actually going to do something
Yeah, NATO and the EU are the bad guys here.
G’way ta Fuk!
Thats true.
But whats your point? US still paid and cajolled Ukraine to lose its nukes. And in so many words implied it would back Ukraine if the "memorandum" wasn't respected by Rus.
Which we now see it wasn't.
The position now is that while Ukraine has been fighting for its very survival since day one, Putin is now doing the same thing, and judging from what is emerging about him is that he is reacting very badly. Lots of changes in the military hierarchy are indications that all in not well there, and Putin is building protective walls around himself.
I never said either were and you know it. I am saying neither organisation was ever intended or constructed to deal with a war on a Non member and when offering criticism of either without addressing that is unfair to both. NATO is a military alliance constituted to defend its members only, the EU is a trade alliance evolving into a political alliance and has no military of its own.
Therefore the lead in military aid to Ukraine can only come from individual nations.
What I don't understand is why, if they do as reported, and are retiring 400 Challenger tanks that they don't send at least half of them to Ukraine. 14 is a bit pointless. 200 now that's game changing. And the UK lose nothing bar the price of scrap iron. They might even find a buyer for the other 200 as a result.
I mean I guess you could attribute responsibility for organizing a conference to nato in that case.
But having previously purchased equipment which is now being sent, thats a national decision. If UK decides to buy a truck its not Natos call, if uk then sends that truck its still not natos call.
You seem to have a few different stories confused.
Jordan has 400 Challenger 1 tanks in storage. There is speculation that they could be bought back by the UK, fixed up and given to Ukraine.
That might happen, but it will be later in the year if it does happen.
Decisions not being made during Nato members conferences no Nato conference where guarantees are made to States,then the states send equipment via nato Hubs like Rzeszów Poland
How much has nato sent?
And dont go counting the contributions of member countries. When France or whoever sends a screw, that credit goes to France, or whichever country.
How much has nato plc, housed in the nato building, on nato street sent.
Not even a tiny percent of what the EU, the organization itself in the EU building in Brussels has.
...........................
Brussels, Belgium.
No surprise Ukraine is reacting this way. The IOC have lost the plot on this one : lifting the ban would mean Russian athletes being allowed to compete in multiple Olympic qualification events this year. In fact, it would mean the ban in track athletics would have to be lifted very quickly, as you can only qualify for the Olympics by running a fast time.
Jasus I dunno the Israelis are getting pissy with them again. Jordan needs those tanks unless it gets better replacement fast.
Billons .
The eu will send 18 billion for 2023
Nato has sent 40 + billon so far and it's still only January
It's not NATO doing any of this but individual nations coordinating their efforts through the NATO organization. There is no "NATO" direct involvement or support but instead there is "nato" logistics and advice to the individual countries and the same to non members (ok maybe a little "NATO" Intel also).
It's nato matter how a few attempt to spin it .
Just look at the display from the Australian open ,and previous sports events,
No Russians should be allowed to take Part in the Olympics or any other Sporting events,
Nothing more than trolls for the Kremlin
Another 4 leopard tanks coming from Canada ,
What's the current count on Leopards???
F16s incoming???
Personally, I start to doubt if there even is such thing as ruSSian patriot. we can clearly see that with every wave of mobilisation. There seems to be however no shortage of useful idiots around, including here, a middle aged sad cnuts with some inner anger towards the world for not materializing their fantasies, cnuts that seem to have some weird perverese attraction to eveerything ruSSia does. An you know what the fun fact is? majority of these cnuts are not even ruSSians.
I doubt it. Any F-16s that might be coming are likely going to be from long-term storage, or possibly from National Guard units if they're from the US. The F-16 is still being produced for foreign buyers, and those buyers are likely not going to be as willing to give up their positions on the list as Egypt was when Germany was looking for an IRIS-T SLM system to give to Ukraine.
I got the figure wrong but they are retiring roughly 130 Challenger 2s and upgrading 140 to Challenger 3 specs. Jordan may well have 400 more which would be great but I doubt they want to take sides in this war to the level of sending tanks.
Considering the kill rate the Challenger 1 had against Russian tanks in the gulf War then getting 100 C2s to Ukraine should be a no brainer.
Zelensky, putin is a nobody on sky news,
His legand keeps on growing
I'm sure there is negotiating and some bargaining to be had to suit everyone,
It's possible they can transfer vipers out of their own stocks or Lockheed produces new ones from orders already being prepped,we might have to wait and see , can't see them coming from the national guard,but can't rule it out either
balls? that little midget has no balls.
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