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Pubs of Ireland (No More)

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Pubs are closing because they can't make money, not because the landlord is going to make a killing selling the licence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    One, but one entirely new one opened. Town is ridiculously under-pubbed though, meaning most of them are barns.

    Provincial towns that were massively over-pubbed still have more closures ahead as auld lads die out and sports gambling moves online



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Being able to flog it off is an incentive to close.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Most pubs now are lacking any bit of crack unless you bring it yourself. You cant chat in a pub anymore because they are pumping generic crap out on the pubs speakers at full volume.

    You cant go to the bar anymore without the person ahead of you ordering 6 cocktails that take 30 minutes to make.

    The experience has become less enjoyable while getting more expensive. The pub is now a place geared towards student and tourists. The students drink before heading out and the tourist order half a pint of Guinness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Where is it you drink exactly ?

    Surely any town big enough to have both students and tourists has enough pubs to have the variety to find one without blaring music and the above clients.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,165 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Out in the sticks in the good old days, publicans realised that they couldn't make a living just running a pub, so had a couple of other businesses running from the same property, a shop, a filling station, and sometimes a funeral business. When the owners of those businesses died out, the next generation usually ignored the back up of the other businesses, and struggled with just running the bar.

    I live near Listowel, which once upon a time had about 60 bars, that had dropped to about thirty, two or three decades ago, and I think there are a hell of a lot less than that now. There seem to be more hairdressers, barbers, and tanning salons, than pubs now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Listowel having 60 pubs is the anomaly not the situation now. That's a pub for every 80 people including children which is completely unsustainable in any non fuked up country.

    In my experience it wasn't that the publicans kids only kept the bar but more likely they had no interest in any of the businesses because they had went off to college and done their own thing.

    There is a load of pubs in Ireland about to die with their owner. Seeing it in a lot of old independent shops too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Butson


    We had a pub in the local town here close after Christmas. Over 1k comments on their Facebook post lamenting it's loss. if only a fraction of those commenting actually went in, it may not have closed.

    Just goes to show the change in culture and spending habits. Some people would spend as much on coffee per week now as they used to in a pub.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I know why pubs are closing. My point was that stifling competition wasn't about helping anyone but landlords.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭brokenbad


    Seeing it in towns up and down the country - pubs closing and a deluge of chemists, barbers, beauticians, coffee shops and "Fix my Phone" shops springing up instead...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,479 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    If a pub licence is €250 why are they changing hands for sixty or seventy grand?

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-licensing/publicans-licences/index.aspx



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That's the application fee only.

    You need to surrender another licence to get it.

    No new licences without surrender have been created for 120 years



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,099 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Wonder if there will come a time when the excessive amount of chemists in small towns will start to close down as well?

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If we had a lower DPS limit*; and more basic drugs available in supermarkets like the UK (ibuprofen, proton pump inhibitors, antihistamines etc) half of them would be gone already.

    *Private prescriptions under the DPS limit can be charged with a much higher margin, and often were. I assume they still are. The limit has been halfed over time so that will have cut that potential margin a lot



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,479 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Nexium is a PPI,Omeprazole basically. Might be cheaper to get the generic in the Chemist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Exactly. You get loads of people getting soppy about a place because it's been there since they were kids or before but there is a big difference between liking a place and using it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,479 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Thirty pubs have closed in New Ross since the nineties apparently. New Ross is a small town,I can't believe there was ever more than ten pubs in the place. Must have literally been a pub on every corner.

    https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/30-pubs-closed-in-new-ross-since-the-1990s-in-major-shift-in-drinking-culture-42311540.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    42 pubs for 6000 people including children. It's absolute madness and I feel no remorse for the loss of these "good old days". 42 pubs with offering the exact same thing too I bet.

    I feel very sorry for little villages that fear losing there only pub but that's about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Suspect a lot of the trade that has gone was related to the fertiliser factories and the port, not the permanent residents. Port workers numbers have been slashed with containerisation and automation, and it was a job with history heavy drinking too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,636 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The ones that closed down their local pub/shop/post office were the people who didn't use them.

    Most towns and villages had ridiculous numbers of pubs in the past, they all can't have stayed open anyhow. Things change and time moves on, more will follow them as the younger set don't seem to have the same interest in supping pints and propping up bar counters like their parents and grandparents.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,479 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    A lot of the local pubs don't open in the daytime now. There's a few with oul lads waiting outside first thing,the rest seem to leave it to evening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It would explain why the density of New Ross was so high but all over the country the numbers were mad.

    The other thing was 40 or whatever pubs is misleading. Overall hospitality capacity in towns might not be down because a lot of them 40 pubs were barely more than a front room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,479 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Was the port ever that busy? One or two ships with a handful of crew hardly supported such a huge pub market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,496 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I feel very sorry for little villages that fear losing there only pub but that's about it.

    This is the thing, places could soon be left without any pub, and unfortunately that's just the reality of the way society is going.

    I live in a big village/small town.

    16 years ago there were seven pubs.

    Now it's down to three, and one will soon close because the owners are retiring and selling it, it will end up as apartments.

    Of the other two the owners of one are not a million miles off retirement.

    Luckily the third one was recently aquired by a young couple, so they may have staying power, especially if they end up with a monopoly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    That is a shame.

    The picture painted throughout this thread seems to tell a similar story unfortunatley.

    For rural Pubs at least.

    I suppose the obvious new concern is that if the Pub license is to be extinguished then the value of a license will drop through the floor.

    This would likley lead to more Pub owners selling up before the extinguishment occurs so they can cash in on the value of a license that would be worth zip in a year or two time.

    I dont see any other outcome other than rural pubs in particular selling up asap unless they are turning a solid profit and in it for the long game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Who would be stupid enough to buy the license a year before extinguishment ?

    One thing the new license system could accommodate is community run pubs. That's the route some places in England have had to go as well as getting the pub listed to save it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Supermarkets will still by licences if they are ready to open.

    Listing a pub won't save it.

    Yes community pubs might be an outcome, maybe add a bar to community centres in rural areas etc. then open weekends with volunteer staff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    In England (may not work the same here) they get the pub listed so that it can't become flats or a Tesco Express. Buys them time to get organized purchase the pub as a community the pub and install a manager to run it non profit.

    So listing over there is a big part of it.

    There are already plenty of places relying on the GAA or similar to run a part time pub like you mentioned.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    More like 100 years, but still 'insane' as you say.

    I think a new hotel will be granted a licence without having to surrender an existing one?

    Maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭brokenbad


    Beloved Midlands Bar Forced To Close - Midlands 103

    Another bites the dust in Tullamore.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    1902 licencing act, so 121 years this year

    A hotel can get a residents bar licence without surrender. They could also get around the old distance rules (you couldn't open a new pub a certain distance from an existing one without the owners consent, basically) before they were scrapped; which is why there were a lot of small (I think 8 bed was the minimum limit for a time, then 15) hotels built in suburban Dublin in the 50s-80s, most are gone now and some others have just become normal pubs.

    You used to have to transfer in multiple licences - 2 or 4 - if taking them in from outside the area the pub was going in to; which mean that licences in high demand areas became insanely dear. The dearest ever was that from The Crane on Crane Lane, bought to transfer to The Quays in Temple Bar; hundreds of thousands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    What happened was publicans and breweries gouging the crap out of people.

    It'll get to 50 euro for five pints on a night out soon. Thing is some people will still pay it.

    The nucleus of all of this is poncy craft beer hipster wankers willing to pay 7 or 8 euro for their slop. Inevitably breweries/publicans put up the prices of other beers and drinks too. In town the average price of a pint of Guinness is now around 6 euro, which is bloody criminal. A Heineken will cost close to 7 in a lot of places. A fucking Heineken! And it won't stop there.

    The problem with all of this is that when the prices of the pint go up, they stay up. It never comes back down no matter what happens.

    Now, I like a drink and I like getting out of the house. But if boozers keep going the way they are, then fuck em, let them die. Eventually there'll be some cop on and the prices might start to come down then.

    Wetherspoons has the right idea, even if the owner is an absolute twat. However, they're always soulless places with absolutely no atmosphere, and they don't sell Guinness. Beamish just doesn't do it for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    We used to have 5 in our village, last one is being demolished to build flats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I'd say it has less to do with "habit" and more to do with cost. The price of a humble pint is shocking these days and the price increases that it's subject too is even more so.

    Put it this way, if the average pint cost 2.50, there would be a LOT more young people in pubs drinking more regularly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Plenty of 6 quid pint pubs have never sold a pint of craft in their existence.

    Your ire needs to be at the publicans and the big 3 breweries (Diageo, Heineken, C&C for this market), not those who drink something you don't like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    There is. But it's still a thing. If people are willing to spend 8 euro on a pint of Wizard's Piss in some hipster wank bar, then they'll have no problem spending 6 or more on something else somewhere normal.

    Your ire needs to be at the publicans and the big 3 breweries (Diageo, Heineken, C&C for this market), not those who drink something you don't like.

    That's why I said

    publicans and breweries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That person spending €8 there almost certainly doesn't drink Heineken or Guinness elsewhere. They are not responsible in any way, shape or form for the macro breweries and macro pubs putting their prices up.

    How much for a bag of those chips on your shoulder?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    That person spending €8 there almost certainly doesn't drink Heineken or Guinness elsewhere.

    You don't that.

    How much for a bag of those chips on your shoulder?

    LOL

    Have I upset you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You're the one making up childish names for beers you don't like and accusing those who do of causing private businesses with a reputation for money-grabbing to money-grab.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    LOL. 🤣

    You saw the words "poncy craft beer hipster **** willing to pay 7 or 8 euro for their slop" and missed everything else, didn't you.


    Clearly, the blame lies with the

    publicans and breweries gouging the crap out of people.


    That includes the poncy craft beer hipster wankers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Some of the prices in the likes of Temple Bar are silly but if people pay those prices then the model works

    I'll always find people that rant on about price gouging are lads that never worked for themselves or understand much about business in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I mean probably a good thing for the country in genera to be less centered around pubs. I am not saying that I am immune to all bad habits but oveedrinking has long been an issue for a large chunk of the population. If there are finding their spare time is better spent elsewhere that is a good thing.


    Obviously we need to ensure that the social part is replaced but in 20-30 years most of the older generation won't think of a pub to socialise.

    In fact this is how many could survive, inviting in board game groups and card groups etc. as a nice place to be able to meet up.


    One point, some have mentioned closures going back decades, did we ever have the thing of paying workers at the pub (employer gets a kick back and pub gets workers in just as they are being payed)? Obviously a manipulative practice but an effective one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The Temple Bar is clearly aimed at a certain clientele. They're tourists, conned into thinking that that's the place to be drinking in in Dublin. When they get there, they'll realise they're being duped and move on, if they've any sense.

    As for price gouging. It's real.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You spent multiple posts trying to blame the drinkers of beer you don't like. Stop trying to backtrack



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Stop being ridiculous. It's clear from my post where the blame lies. It's in the first line FFS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And in the third line, you say they've done this because of people drinking beer you don't like.

    You have one hell of a chip on your shoulder about that and are exceptionally touchy about having it pointed out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,822 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You read one part and got upset. Missing everything else. 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I read the lot

    You are clearly very upset that some people drink beer that you don't, though.

    Have you actually tried any beer not made by the main macro brewers? Which ones and how long ago?



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