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What exactly happened here?

[Deleted User]

https://twitter.com/threeredkings/status/1617252260219682817?s=20

Surely some injury after this?

And who is this playing, are they Irish? I don't follow rugby but saw this gif on twitter.

That is one big boy in the red shirt.

Are average rugby players that large?

Can a dude even play that game if they're under 80 kgs?

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pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151767#Comment_120151767

The TMO does this. There are a few of them there in their own booth with multiple feeds that they can access, replay, slow down as much as they want.

The ref could have asked to see the tackle again but he seemed happy with what he saw himself and the couple of replays.

So this Joey Carbery player, did he have any comment on that?

I didn't see him being asked about it anywhere. His bidy language didn't indicate there was anything untoward about it. He's a regular target for big hits and has taken a bit of punishment over the last few weeks.

Was he injured?

No, he got straight back up and played on.

Full on charging headbutt to the underside of the chin.

No, there is no way in hell a player gets up from a charging headbutt to the chin from a 120kg forward arriving at speed. It was a hard collision, shoulder to chest.

All that said, I'm not a fan of this kind of 'reducer' tackle. It's always been part of the game and a way for the big fellows to even the score against smaller players who can dance around them. It's a tackle that's probably already illegal in amateur rugby and will be for definite soon, in many leagues.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151767#Comment_120151767

The TV Directors/production staff have previously delayed making footage available to TMOs, in fact, they have "lost" footage that was actually broadcast during the game but could not be found when the TMO wanted to review it a few minutes later when being reviewed.

When/what game?

[Deleted User]

All avid rugby enthusiasts here.

From never having played the game, could anyone comment on the TECHNICALITY of rugby as a game?

In contrast to what I see as a similar game/sport in amateur wrestling?

https://youtu.be/McuR-7ts5I8?t=20

This is one of the more accomplished technical wrestlers in the top ranks.

When I say "technical" I mean, like a physical chess match.

Cutting angles, setting up your opponent. Cleanness/fluidity of executing takedowns?

How much does that come into rugby?

Obviously so much more of rugby is getting the ball of the goal line, but in terms of executing tackles - the majority of rugby tackles seem equivalent to the wrestling "bully double" - which means charging into your opponent from a low level and kind of hoping you can maul him to the ground.

Though there are some angle takedowns

Where there's nice lateral movement, turning to the side versus just driving forward, for a nice clean take down.

[Deleted User]

So this Joey Carbery player, did he have any comment on that?

Was he injured?

It's kind of like seeing one of the motorcycle riders take a fall at 100 mph and you expect they'll never walk again....... then they jog back to the pit lane.

Full on charging headbutt to the underside of the chin.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151524#Comment_120151524

The TV directors/production staff have no role or impact on what the tmo sees or wants to see

This is mad, who do you think runs the tapes/speed of play, stopping at point of contact, etc. for the TMO and Ref?

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151684#Comment_120151684

I'm sure they is an angle that would would show JOD's hit last week as a perfectly good hit too but that's why ref look at any angle they can get to make their final decision.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151707#Comment_120151707

They used what French TV broadcast, they had no say in what angles was made available to us.

pickarooney

BT sport did cover the game. They described Antoine Frisch's fully upright tackle as 'reeeeally good contact and hit' seconds before '3 storey Rory' comes through on Carbery. This was during the replay of it while the clock was stopped for the officials to look at the passage of play with three tackles.

Doyle and O'Driscoll are straight up lying here.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120151655#Comment_120151655

Whatever about the TRK stuff, their comments are ridiculous also. There is nothing "blatantly obvious" about that. Its a perfectly good hit to me.

phog

https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/1617523139143168006?t=4v_LbAaKWySOQ6iQ6lt0VQ&s=19

TRK mehole

Lost Ormond

The TMO can see anything the cameras show

The TV directors/production staff have no role or impact on what the tmo sees or wants to see

Former Former Former

The thing about that video clip is that you can't see the point of initial contact so you've no idea where or how he hits him.

I'm pretty sure it's been clarified a few times that the TV replays are separate from the TMO. I don't really believe that French TV producers (and only the French ones) are deliberately trying to cheat visiting teams.

Edit: when you watch it back in real time, it's absolutely fine and in fact they did show a replay of it.

https://youtu.be/0VGovwrxTa8?t=1642

TRK strikes again.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150666#Comment_120150666

Ah, ok.

That would be fair and explain things. The TV director certainly does have influence with replays (crowd reaction obviously plays a part even if it shouldn't in theory) but its a lot more minimal than people think.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150047#Comment_120150047

I think the statement was about French TV not replaying incidents. Clarifying if the TMO has all the angles even if the TV doesn’t show replays.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147847#Comment_120147847

You can't expect them to make a statement about every potential incident.

You could give a penalty for not properly wrapping, though I think he does make an attempt. I don't see any head on head contact. Carbery just gets smoked.

pickarooney

The clock was stopped at 21.37, the ref team looked at three separate incidents including the Arnold hit on Carbery. There was nothing in it, Carbery got straight up after placing the ball and time went back on once Haley had been substituted for an unfortunate self-inflicted injury.

Narcissus

The referee is right fkn there, HOW can he not check that

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147869#Comment_120147869

Happened in one of France's recent November tests as well, ridiculous

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147809#Comment_120147809

TMOs are at the mercy of the TV directors even if they can still see stuff we don't see. They depend on what the TV people can find them at the time.

Craig Doyle with BOD & Dallagilo on BT Sport as good as said if they were broadcasting it it would have got a second look.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147809#Comment_120147809

its been suggested that TMOs dont always get the full picture from production companies/tv stations/whatever in france, i dont know if this is actually the case but it has come up a number of times. i seem to remember a racing munster game in la defense a few years ago being one example

Dave_The_Sheep

Aye. French tv directors have indeed been sneaky b*stards in the past - not that it doesn't happen everywhere to a lesser degree - but all they can do now is rile up crowds, their impact on the TMO should be negligible. And yes, I realise crowd reaction can sometimes get a ref to look at something in more detail.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147809#Comment_120147809

I wish someone would come out and make an official statement on this and put it to bed for once and for all.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147028#Comment_120147028

I started playing at 35. I still can't tackle for crap but I absolutely love playing. We have a 74 year old on our team.

You're never too old, you just need to find your level.

Dave_The_Sheep

TMOs have access to camera angles even if the TV directors don't show them again, so should be looking at tackles regardless of them being replayed.

[Deleted User]

Smart teams in the world cup will dive any time they feel contact to the face and force them to review.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120147031#Comment_120147031

100% agreement.

I don't know exactly where Arnold caught Carbery, but we'll never know really because the French ensured the picture wasn't replayed.

I cannot understand how tournament organisers have not addressed this issue.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280816/what-exactly-happened-here

This is another reason why France will be such a threat in 2023, you know if in a tight game thing's like this will be overlooked but then a much less dangerous incident from Healy will be spotted...

Could rival the Jerome Kaino moment in the 2011 final.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120146974#Comment_120146974

That's the first thing that's apparent.

No one can is going to charge into you at sprint pace on the mats or in a ring.

And that's where serious damage seems to get done (read about this in American football also).

I mentioned to a dude back in secondary school about starting rugby and he looked me up and down (I was a bean back then) and said, "be careful with the rugby".

I had little concept of what he meant at the time but, I continued to be a bean up until my early 20's, taking up wrestling and realizing I needed to bulk up to be successful (and as above, wrestling is far more controlled, but arguably a more technical learning curve?)

Basically what I'm trying to determine is, did I do the right thing as a bean teenager not playing rugby?

I hate that feeling of "missing out on".

Watching that tackle makes me think there's additional toughness to be learned in that sport.

pickarooney

We've had two guys join our club this year with strong backgrounds in various grappling sports and they've taken to defending in a big way. The timing is the biggest issue as you don't normally have people accelerating at you in the ring, but the technique and bravery are there in spades.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145446#Comment_120145446

Looks like a headbutt with a running start.

Looks like TBI or a broken jaw or both.

I grew up around rugby but never played it.

Brilliant game I enjoyed watching as a kid, the strategy of passing and physicality of execution.

But despite so much exposure, never felt the least compelled to play it.

Which feels a little bizarre as I gravitated strongly into a much more peripheral/less-available but remarkably similar sport, in amateur wrestling (folkstyle and greco).

I actually started doing this in my early 20's in New Zealand where every damn dude plays or has played rugby quite extensively.

........

Maybe I should have made more of an effort to play when I was younger, it just never had appeal.

Which leaves me scratching my head as technique wise there is significant cross over between it and wrestling.

PMC83

Looks like shoulder om shoulder to me, with the red players head low and in front of the Carbs chin?