All parties so do you include Ukraine as one of these parties? Defending itself v Russia?
If so it is morally bankrupt nonsense.
Strange you admit to uncertainty re military but not civilian...
We dont know the full civilian toll of the war eg in places occupied by Russia.
The main point is that it is already a major military conflict.
Can't believe Europe only 80 years after the Nazis were defeated finds it's best tanks held hostage by the Germans. They make the money from selling them and then later do their best to help the Russian Nazis.
They won't hold out forever but every week they do Putin will be grateful. Ideally they'd hold out until mid summer before Ukraine get leopard's so by the time they're all trained the autumn mud season hits and they're forced to wait until summer 2024 to attack.
Hopefully Poland and a few countries force their hand. And those saying why should Germany approve unless America does. Because economically it makes far more sense to send German then Abrams.
I don't think America are too bothered either way because the longer this war lasts the more Russia will suffer militarily and economically and the more the American military economy booms.
That may be your opinion, not mine. I have no idea what in your mind works or not, and frankly I do not care much. War is always bad and in my opinion all parties who resort to this are are bad.
Wow, a new way to say that Russia ain’t that bad. Congratulations, but it doesn’t work.
That depends on from what viewpoint you want to look at any conflict. While casualties of military personnel may be higher in current russia ukraine conflict (we do not know real numbers as both sides report vastly different numbers for obvious reasons) this conflict is relatively small when compared to civilian casualties which are vastly different compared to a number of other recent conflicts.
Daily mail readers in 3..2..1..
I think we've long surpassed the Yugoslav conflict in terms of both casualties and intensity.
[Edit. And a quick Googling seems to confirm the casualty statement. The intensity statement is self-evident]
Not quite there yet. You seems to forget about Yugoslav wars.
russia have nothing they have a PMC that's trying to carve out an area. The head guy cannot stay out of the sights for long. What if the russinas cut funding merks will walk. Regular russian conscripts need a gun the the back same for the PMC. I think the main guy is due for a visit to a window or some tea. Once he is gone they will collapse.
I agree the no tanks is not just a German thing, on fears of escalation is appeasement to the aggressor whatever way its dressed up.
Russians are moving quicker now to beat the weapons already promised so training on these Bradley's etc must be stepped up.
While painfully slow it probably all that Ukraine can support while having very long active battle fronts to protect and we don't know how bad logistically their infrastructure effects this.
Next 2 months will be all about not letting Russia to get near karmatorsk their next levelling target.
Em..... I'd describe the World Wars as..... World Wars. It's pretty self explanatory.
Unless you're alien and you think it means different worlds at war, but we would call that War of the Worlds actually. Or we will at some point in time.
Hasn't been this much shelling since WW2, hasn't been this much dead since WW2, hasn't been this many war crimes since WW2 on 'the continent' as you like to say.
Yuck.
That is so lame.
So now I'm blaming Ukraine, because I said 'the Ukraine war' to describe a war ... in Ukraine.
That is some weak, tedious shyte if I've ever seen it.
fuking hell.
oh that stinks.
It's the largest war in Europe since WW2 simple.
Its unsurprising that you're a bit lost. For a few reasons.
The discussion has digressed into sub-points about sub-points.
You call it a massive war, fair enough. I don't, based on the comparative numbers of the world wars, and other European conflicts.
I wonder how you might describe the world wars. Mega-super-giga massive perhaps.
When trying to avoid ... a larger scale conflict ... on a continent which you live on, its best to avoid rushing in.
Especially when there's a nuclear armed elderly dictator involved.
Now I'll try to refocus the conversation a bit. (probably in vain, with some of the triggered loons in here).
I think I may have cracked it. Wasn't Merkle afraid of dogs and when she first met Putin he purposely had a dog with him?
Maybe, just maybe Putin was attacked by a leopard at a zoo or something and that will trigger him?
If that's the case then I withdraw my criticism of Germany not supplying tanks.
Overly complex language using words not necessary are a key give away. Tones of bots have been caught out that way.
It's actually the Russian war. Ukraine did not invade Russia. Don't go victim blaming, it's the lowest of the low.
Challengers seem immune to nuclear war odd that. All the other MBT same. Do only German Tanks cause Nuclear war ?
While azzhole tabloid readers shout and boo, from behind the sea, far from the continent.
Hang on a second.... what's your gripe with Ireland, UK, USA being a sea away? people have been protesting in Germany about Germany not allowing countries to donate their tanks to Ukraine. France already said they were donating a light tank also the fist IFV. Is Russia gonna nuke us all now?
Poland donated hundreds of T72's. FFS the amount of arms Ukraine has received, they could invade pretty much any other European country (airforces excluded) but Leopard tanks will cause WW3?
Well I imagine Germany probably is quite interested in avoiding escalation to the point of nuclear detonation on the continent, yes.
No, why would I.
Hey, talk to me directly if you have a pair. No need to act like a whispering old lady.
There are 750m people on the european continent. The Ukraine war is not massive. Not by proportion, not by history.
Comrade explain to the rest of the class how russia will project power passed Ukraine. Nukes is it been a day since they were mentioned.
Germany is trying to avoid such numbers.
Ukraine is not a massive war. Not by the scale of what it could potentially turn into.
Do you want to see such a war?
Neither does Germany, Europes key power (along with France).
So, Germany moves carefully.
lol and we get an answer on everyone's lips "Very Secondary" 🤣
HQ has changed that recently. Leader mentioned war did they not.
anti-nato stance noted. like ok that means something?
we had nato over recently? right? ok.
what does any of this mean?
I didn't know about Ireland being in a nato battle group.
This is all very secondary.
At least you don't consider it a Special Military Operation, I guess.
Are you seriously suggesting russias mobilisation plans are not massive, Meat waves will not do much but 500k soldiers is no small number.
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