Carbery and Byrne are just not comparable for what they bring to the game and they are in no way in a "dependable" shoot out. Carbery can bring the ball to the line in a way that Byrne could only dream of.
Now, Byrne has improved there better than I expected and Carbery's decision making about when to do that is still questionable. But I still think Byrne's peak crosses over Carbery's level only for a small bit, the latter has a higher ceiling. Maybe they've just decided he'll never reach it. I still think its weird timing given he has been playing better for Munster.
Jack Conan will be the incumbent for the 20 jersey and is a test Lion. But Coombes is something a little different. Freakishly strong in tight exchanges but not the athlete that Conan or Doris are. I'd like to see him start at no.8 for the Italy game to see if he can bring his club form to the international stage.
I agree with them both, and if Conan is bothered he could work on being better than Doris (he'll fail though).
I'll stand here all day and defend the idea that Doris is the best of our backrow. He has worked out his handling issues and silly propensity to give away penalties. He has everything else.
Yeah, I guess the argument is that JVDF is a clear #1 in the 7 shirt, followed by POM, and after that it's better to let the likes of Connors / Penny / Hodnett / Kendellen / Timoney keep getting gametime for the provinces.
There's 3 backrows with experience at lock (Baird, Coombes and Pendergast).
While I doubt a 3 lock pack is the goal (POM Doris and VDF are too good) I wouldn't argue that there's too few locks to do a 3 lock pack.
I still think Connors will get back in before the world Cup if he gets a run of games together. Hodnett and Penny probably a bit unlucky not to get in as a second 7.
Crazy competition as usual. Will be interesting to see if Farrell sticks with the tried and tested or mixes it up.
On form you'd probably go with
Coombes, VDF, Dorris to start.
Baird and Conan are both hitting good form as well. Lots of options
The backrow selections look more than a little imbalanced when you look at the squad.
All of POM, Baird, Prendergast, Conan, Doris, Coombes, Beirne & Henderson have started games at 6 this year or relatively recently, but only really JVDF and POM as options in the 7 shirt.
It's interesting that behind Timoney (who it seems was dropped on form grounds, fair enough), AF doesn't seem to see any of the next contenders as ready.
Use them at 6&8 or maybe give Coombes his opportunity v Italy and see how that goes.
I'm not here trying to push Coombes ahead of anyone but I do think he warrants an opportunity.
I think Coombes is a better offloader as well fwiw. (Possibly a better lineout option too but it’s closer).
But Coombes is so strong in the tight, he often attracts multiple tacklers. That causes compressions in defence, where you see a try out wide 2-3 phases later.
Coombes won’t get the assist, but he’ll have had a very large part in unlocking the defence.
I’d still be picking Doris at 8 for sure (he’s absolutely top quality). But I’d love to see Coombes get an opportunity on the bench.
And I wouldn’t be at all opposed to see them both line out at 6 and 8.
That’s fine.
But absolutely nobody (including yourself) was saying this before the squad was selected.
I don't think Farrell has selected this squad for a 3 lock pack, only bringing 4 locks into camp, I think they'd have brought one or two fewer back row forwards and one or two extra locks
Before Jack Crowley put together a good run.
Irrespective of Carbery's prior selection, it doesn't surprise me one iota that the three selected are those three and that it's at Carbery's expense.
Selecting favourites irrespective of form is Eddie O'Sullivan era stuff.
I'd argue it's not one bit competitive, it's trying to get the best of a bad lot after Sexton. All 3 (4 or 5 if you want to add HB & Frawley) have their limitations and Farrell must have a headache in trying to see which one will give him the best chance of a win if he has to rely on one of them.
I also wonder if Farrell knows Sexton is out a few days before a game will Joey be called up and straight in as a starter.
Beirne has gotten a lot more recognition this year in the row than Ryan has - wouldn't be putting either as first name down on the team sheet over the other. That said - in the IRFU team sheet he's listed as a second row, I don't think he'll feature at all in the backrow unless there are injuries.
I've been a big fan of Coombes for a long time. I think he's a better tight carrier than Doris, they both have a strong breakdown game. I think in most other aspects of the game he's behind Doris. In particular for Farrell style Ireland I think the fact that Doris has an incredible pass and very good pace really stand to him. Both are very smart players but I haven't seen Coombes really unlock teams with a bit of craftiness - it's more his power that stands out.
Great to have them both, but on current performances I'd have to disagree with Paul.
I was replying about Mike Haley. Not the 10 position.
But while I’m here:
I find it odd that people here are asking if Carbery is injured etc.
It’s cos, since Farrell’s started, any time Joey’s not been injured, he’s been picked.
I didn’t see anybody suggesting he’d be dropped from the squad prior to today.
Only room for one 'dependable' 10 in the Squad and thats RB, cos he offers 'dependable' at a higher return level than Carbery just now.
Unfortunately Carbery just hasn't offered playmaking and control at a level required by an Ireland squad of this level of ambition. There are better options and they have been selected.
If Ciarán Frawley were fit, he'd be in ahead of one of the other two as well.
This is just life in a massively competitive environment and I find it odd that people here are asking if Carbery is injured etc. Have you watched all the contenders play recently?
A lot of people feel it plays a part. I don't think it guarantees inclusion but it obviously helps. If you look at the squad the players who are lucky to make it are Stockdale, Earls and Murray to a lesser extent too. You'd have to feel the CC helped them out here because they're not there on form
There are none (Henshaw is injured). Yes, I think Stockdale is in the squad based on his contract but I don't believe it will carry over into team selection, nor is anyone really losing out with him being there.
We can debate his play making, but he doesn’t strike me as an error prone player at all tbh. Quite the opposite, in fact, I think he’s extremely dependable.
Indeed I do. He's been playing extremely well.
He is an extremely limited playmaker and is fairly error prone. He beats the first and second man a lot after fielding kicks but it’s usually to get himself or Munster out of trouble, its extremely rare that he turns defence into attack from around his own 22, where he makes most of his runs, because of his limited playmaking and lack of elite pace. Against set defences when Munster are on the attack he generally contributes very little. He is a good provincial player but not international standard imo.
Is Stockdale only there because he is on a central contract? I can’t think of many central contracted players not being selected for squads.
Would echo a lot of comments. Very surprised about Joey, he must be injured. He's been in worse form and been picked before.
Stockdale is a bit of a headscratcher. Hope he shoots the lights out if he gets a chance.
Murray was not involved against Northampton but I'm not wholly convinced he was 'dropped' - I wonder was that to give younger lads a go at a decent level and see how they go (a good shout in the long term). Ironically, it was a game crying out for Murray to control and close out when the red card happened. I don't think he's done with Ireland at all, it might be horses for courses. He's played well enough this year too.
Earls is interesting - his form has very consistent over the years, he's been out injured for a while and put in a couple of bad performances. Maybe age has caught up or it's just a temporary dip. I'm surprised he's been picked if I'm honest but I hope he takes his chance if he does get one, he kind of has to. A poor Six Nations for him and I don't see him making the WC squad. A penny for the thoughts of Calvin Nash or Daly at the moment, they may have had his hopes up a little.
Delighted for Coombes, well earned. Arguably the form player in Ireland. Osborne has been in good form also bar that one match recently, will be interesting to see how he handles international level if he gets a go.
Worried about props, Killer played well the other day but we're in need of new blood before the WC. It's a shame Loughman is injured.
It's a pity Haley's form wasn't rewarded but them's the breaks I guess. He's an injury away from being called in maybe.
Going to be a fascinating Six Nations with the changes in coaches, all a bit unsettled.
Is nobody considering Jamie Osbourne as cover for FB?
Stockdale and Kilcoyne the surprise for me. Neither are the players they once were. Killer due to age, Stockdale perhaps the environment up in Ulster lately....
Haha, "I don't want to big him up too much, but he can be as good as Kieran Read and some of the real greats" from Dallaglio.
I think Conan is probably sick to the teeth of his fellow Irish 8's being praised. Dallaglio thinks Doris will be as good as Kieran Read and one of Ireland's greatest ever.
If by "bigged up" you mean "praised for his legitimately excellent performances", then I agree.
All good. The very best thing Jack Conan can hear, is Coombes being big upped.
I would imagine if looks something like
VDF, Doris & POM
Conan
Baird & Coombes
Prendergast.
as the pecking order going into it.
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