I haven't examined Munsters play closely enough but I'm guessing we've tried to shield him in defence somehow.
We absolutely used to. ( I have a beey specific memory of CJ Stander moving to 7 against Leinster and you could see him a number of times shoot off the scrum to protect Carbery’s channel).
Fwiw, I actually think he’s been better in that regard in the last 2-3 months, but it’s definitely still an issue.
The props are the biggest source of woe for me.
Cian Healy and Dave Kilcoyne are too old
They're too old now, and they'll be even older in September
Looking at the French 6 nations squad. Their oldest prop is 32, and he's only one over 30
Kilcoyne is 34 and Healy is 35 turning 36 during the RWC
I don't get the versatility argument personally. There's no reason whatsoever Haley couldn't slot in on the wing. He's an excellent defender, beats the first man every time and has a decent boot. He's been very harshly treated imo.
It was at least 2 (arguably 3) posters who wrote posts about it:
I was being a bit tongue in cheek with my comments on this, but there were equally some posts back around the time of the Healy announcement of a similar-ish tone.
I do think he's the best 15 after Keenan and worth investing in him in the squad. If Keenan gets an injury we are looking at playing a winger(some with game time at 15) at fullback.
Haley might be able to slot in on the wing but he never does so we don't know. He should be ahead of Earls and Stockdale though. Its hard to see either getting back to where they were. Think Farrell will get Earls his 100 caps which no one would begrudge him but can't see him getting to the world Cup.
Carbery hasn't been playing well enough to be the Irish 2nd choice out half.
That has been largely irrelevant for his entire career to date. Doesn't really explain things imo.
We're the no.1 team in the world, we won a series in NZ, beat the world champions in November. France and ourselves are the two best teams in the 6N and we have the more favourable fixture list. So tell me which teams we should be content with losing to? If we can't beat France at home, how can we expect to have any chance of beating them in Paris in October? That leaves England, Scotland, Wales and Italy. If we lose to any of them, then yes, it's fair to say we've gone backwards from having the New Zealand crowd booing their own team off at half time, such was the humbling we gave them in the first half.
If we're going to lose out to France or be overtaken by Wales or England (as we always are in world cup years) and be satisfied with that then fair enough. But if we're serious about being contenders this time, we need to back up what we did last year. Only a Grand Slam achieves that.
Ah, I was talking about the Irish national team depth chart, I wasn't saying that the IRFU were telling Munster that they had to select Carbery
I have no idea whether Carbery has genuinely been dropped, but I'm surprised at how many posters have discounted the possibility that our most injury prone player might be injured again.
He wasn't mentioned as injured in Tuesday's squad update, so unless something happened yesterday, I presume he's fit
All those 3 posts are pretty close to “when coaches have invested so much time in a player, they may be reluctant to drop him”.
That’s not really remotely close to what you were implying.
This championship is going to be a team depth building exercise. With Healy going from Munster Carbery will have plenty of time to shine there during the 6N games, meanwhile Murray, Sexton and Aki need game time as they've been lacking it at their provinces
Agree on some of the comments on Haley, he's excellent imo and easily closest thing to Keenan we have.
That's the thing, if Keenan gets injured we will end up playing a wing at 15. I'd much rather have a fullback covering 11 or 14 than vice versa. We are banking on Keenan not picking up any injuries between now and next October. What's the harm in bedding in a replacement as a contingency plan.
I agree wholeheartedly on Stockdale and Earls. As much as I love Earls and want to see him get his 100th cap he doesn't deserve to be in the squad on form. However, I can appreciate that his contributions in training and behind the scenes may be the reason for his call up. Stockdale's inclusion has me utterly stumped. He's been in terrible form and doesn't look anything close to the player he was in 2018.
I mean, we've better depth than we've ever had to be fair?
Lowe and Hansen are in my view the best wing pairing we've had in a generation. Larmour is having a terrific run of form, I'd have no issue him slotting in. Balacoune and Stockdale are units we've not really had before. JOB can do a job there, Earls is still a very reliable option and then you've still the likes of Conway to return from injury and Daly / Nash looking like real prospects. In my view not only do we have the best starting wingers we've probably ever had, but we're not 1 step removed from Dave Kearney and Fergus McFadden (two great players and brilliant servants).
Mike Haley has definitely lost out to versatility. Keenan is the only out and out fullback in the squad. JOB is there as cover (Larmour I'd imagine wing) but JOB can cover centre and has done so at the highest level.
Haley is tearing it up this season, I think he's close to pushing Keenan based on form but he is very much just a fullback.
In fairness, at least one of those posters was explicitly saying that IRFU were forcing Munster to pick Carbery even though the local lads were better.
I thought Schrodinger Sexton was our most injured player (as well as hogging all the out half minutes)
Read my original post on this, FFF; I’ve acknowledged as much. But that’s the point.
It was a single poster; you’re making this out to be a lot more than it actually was.
I did, and tbh I think you're being very charitable if you don't think that
"So much invested in Carbery by moving him to Munster to be 10, that it creates a reluctance amongst all coaches in Munster and Ireland to allow him to be usurped"
or
"We need to be patient and wait for the Carbery shareholders to pull out"
mean that IRFU are interfering in Munster selections.
This Championship is going to be a Grand Slam winning exercise.
Yeah completely discounted alright.
It's a 37 man squad not all the back 3 players will make the world cup. Infact it's very likely that stockdale and Earls miss out later in the season.
But who were the viable alternatives for this squad?
Nash daly haley or lowry?
Balacoune and Conway are injured.
Not a lot between everyone
Stockdale has covered FB and Earls has recently covered wing and centre off the bench.
To clarify, I was agreeing with you...
Something's obviously changed with regard to Carbery - assuming he's available; the coaches had been backing him to the hilt for ages.
The only thing I can think of is Crowley developing. They were very impressed with him, based on soundbites. They obviously feel he is now more likely to deliver what they're looking for than Carbery is.
No FFF. Not what I was saying.
When there is so much will and hope placed behind a desired outcome, then it's more likely that double-downing occurs when it starts to look like said outcome is becoming less and less likely. Human nature. Not just true for professional rugby situations. But also true in them.
There was no player good enough to take Carbery's Jersey from him at either Munster or Ireland until recently.
Assuming Carbery is not injured right now, then Farrell has done what Farrell has done from day 1 as Ireland head coach. Picks and drops on form. Or to use my own language from my earlier post that you quoted, he has decided to invest in Byrne and Crowley and is currently no longer a shareholder in Carbery's play.
The first quote reads to me far more like the sunk cost fallacy than anything implying IRFU interference.
In any case, the bigger point is let’s not make this out to be a bigger thing than it is.
Apologies, I misread you.
Okay, apologies then for misinterpreting you.
Cian Tracy on the Indo rugby podcast saying some journalists were down in Limerick yesterday, saw a very small bit of Munster training, Carbery was involved and no indication of an injury.
Can we cut this out please lads.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/ddb508ca3281bbcc5001177dc26332a1.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/dd23f423fe14831a2a84d9f17c825ecc.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w6.vanillicon.com/v2/6081e4655739e0887aaf16222f88b015.svg)
