Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
or they could just not be happy with how he played and they decided not to pick him in this squad?
i dont have have his book to hand but he mentions it in that, hes mentioned it on virgin media too i think
i also have vague recollection of cullen mentioning similar in an interview when ross byrne dropped out of the squad for the euro knockouts in 17/18 having started a number of the pool games.
I've never been on the MRSC committee and have won 6Ns tickets through their lotto.
Surley everyone knows that only committee members of the MRSC win that particular lottery annually.
No need for any shenanigans. He'll do the coaching intervention course and be available to play on Jan 30th.
Game weeks. Another option would be to call him upto the Ireland squad and let him be banned through six nations weeks where Munster aren't playing.
England are releasing Farrell to Saracens the weekend after this one so he serves his ban for saracens instead of England.
That's it as well. Haley is the second best full-back in Ireland right now and yet it's still a bit much to just call him up in the case of a Keenan injury and plop him straight into the starting role. There's a dynamic interplay of the wings and full-back in Catt's attacking system, and he'd need to get his reps in.
Did anyone get six nations tickets from the ballot yet?
I completely agree.
If Keenan were to get hurt, Haley is the guy who I would want to see in the Irish 15 shirt, and I would have thought he'd earned the right to be in there to show more.
I think he deserves to be in there ahead of Stockdale, who's form has been poor for Ulster this year.
Frisch was always an outside shout, but I really feel for Haley. I get the logic behind the omission, but he's playing the rugby of his life and you just can't convince me that Ireland will be in better shape for the 6N without him in camp. Irrespective of eventual selections.
There are also more personal, man-management factors to consider. A guy ups his game like he has in the last 6 months, the head coach has to be more overtly responsive. For the sake of both that player's motivations and others' on the periphery.
Yes. It's 3 playing weeks.
Are the weeks done in terms of fixtures so 3 weeks means 3 matches?
2 weeks it is then. He'll miss Toulouse and Benetton and be back for the Ospreys.
JOD banned for 3 weeks
Jack O’Donoghue suspended for three weeks
The Munster Rugby back row, Jack O’Donoghue, has been suspended for three weeks following an independent Disciplinary Hearing arising from his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round 3 match against Northampton Saints at Thomond Park.
O’Donoghue was sent off by the referee, Tual Trainini (France), in the 23rd minute of the match for tackling the Northampton Saints second row, David Ribbans, in a dangerous manner in contravention of Law 9.13.
Law 9.13 A player must not tackle an opponent dangerously
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.13 relating to dangerous tackling carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 2 weeks; Mid-range: 6 weeks; Top end: 10 to 52 weeks.
An independent Disciplinary Committee comprising Ian Unsworth KC (England), Chair, Nigel Williams (Wales) and Martyn Wood (England) heard submissions from O’Donoghue, who accepted the red card decision, from the Munster Rugby Team Manager, Niall O’Donovan, and from the EPCR Disciplinary Officer, Liam McTiernan.
The committee upheld the red card decision, finding that in carrying out the tackle in a dangerous manner, O’Donoghue had made contact with Ribbans’ head. It then determined that the offending was at the mid-range of World Rugby’s sanctions and six weeks was selected as the appropriate entry point.
As the player has a clear disciplinary record, and as there were no aggravating factors, it was decided to grant him the full 50% mitigation and the committee therefore reduced the sanction by three weeks before imposing a three-week suspension.
O’Donoghue is free to play on Monday, 20 February due to Munster Rugby’s fixture schedule, however, if he applies for and successfully completes a World Rugby Coaching Intervention, he will be free to play on Monday, 30 January.
Both he and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.
Fair
I'd say Earls and Stockdale are there as much to be in camp to know calls and patterns in case their form improves (and to be a leader in camp in Earls case) and I'd give a second dedicated 15 a spot for the same reason (to learn forms patterns and strategy) if I was going for such a large group of outside backs.
I think Farrell has one eye on his RWC Squad and I'd be surprised if he ever thought of naming two dedicated FBs in his squad.
I kind of thought the same until Farrell named 7 outside backs in his squad. With 7 there should be room for a dedicated back up fullback.
Haley definitely but he's too alike to Keenan ands as Keenan is available then Farrell was always going to go with a utility back to cover FB. If Keenan was out injured I'd say Farrell would opt for Haley.
I'm still not fully sold on Daly - obviously Farrell likes him but atm I'd have Nash ahead of him.
Can you link to where Kearney said that?
My own view of it has been more akin to what @Former Former Former said above, that they will intervene possibly if NIQ players are obstructing IQ players, and obviously the protocols around player management.
The Irish coaches obviously influence provincial selection in the way Farrell et al. have been prepared to select guys who aren't first choice for their respective provinces, but I haven't heard of examples of IRFU or Irish coaches dictating a player must start, and I can see zero logic for why they would.
Haley and Daly unlucky to miss out.
The Munster players named in the Irish 6Ns squad - Casey, Crowley, Earls, Murray, Beirne, Coombes, Kilcoyne & O’Mahony
As already mentioned Ben Healy is in the Scottish 6Ns Squad.
So after the 6N squad was announced are some still claiming that Munster have been picking Carbery over everyone else due to Irish management interference?
At least we won't have any issues finding a 10 to play during the 6N.
JJ was a kind of wildcard appointment. He was no longer thought to be international standard but he was brought in as 3rd choice cover behind Carbery and Bleyandaal. While Carberry was injured, it was a chance for Burns, Carty and Ross Byrne to overtake Carbery on the international scene, but inside munster, we had blown our budget on 2 10s who were almost never fit to be selected
Since 2021, we have seen Ben Healy graduate from the academy, and Crowley coming in directly behind him, while Carbery has finally found some fitness and has been given space to re-discover his match form at club and international level.
Rugby is a cruel mistress sometimes. Munster went years without having a fit 1st choice 10, and straight into having 3 fit international standard 10s and having to play academy players in the league before the 6 Nations (they pretty much confirmed Butler is either starting or Benching for the Benneton game during the press conference today)
right well kearney and carbery are both irish-qualified so thats your first point out, although id imagine it would usually be the case yes
and i completely disagree regarding both JJ and Healy, but fine thats your opinion. i seem to remember consternation before JJ left for northampton as to why he wasnt starting in europe, id also argue he showed against castres at home and clermont away that he was good enough to be a starter for munster. healy against wasps would be a similar case
maybe neither of them showed it consistently enough but i wouldnt accuse carbery of consistency either to be honest
The IRFU might intervene when an NIQ is depriving an IQ of game time. That might make sense. It would make no sense when both players are Irish.
This theory is predicated on the idea that JJ Hanrahan is/was good enough to be Munster's first choice and in the mix for Ireland. He isn't and never was and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. Ben Healy isn't and never was either, but he at least has time to develop.
I'd agree with a lot of that, but would have a small quibble with this:
Similarly, start your specialist full back at 15 and if he gets injured, you can bring on the 10 to cover 15 in a 6-2
It depends on the 10. Like, for example, I don't think Ross Byrne or Ben Healy would ever move to FB. In that scenario, you'd be relying on the players on the field to re-organise / cover it, like you mentioned.
Also, coaches often prefer to make a single change, rather than re-organising a number of positions, which is point against having an out-and-out 10 on the bench. (But I suppose that's exactly the point your making, for coaches player 10's at 12 and 15).
kearney has said that the irfu intervenes in provincial selection from time to time, pretty simple
i have vague recollection of cullen mentioning it in a post-match interview previously too but i could be incorrect in that
also, given how the main irfu and the individual provinces work i dont see why you are so incredulous at the idea of them intervening? it is far from the realms of possibility
remember, this is an organisation that wanted to keep van graan.....
What are you claiming here that Rob Kearney supposedly said?
i don’t even understand what point you’re trying to make with your theory above on the rationale for the move.
you have repeatedly failed to post any credible theory for why the IRFU would be insistent that Munster / Ireland pick a player if those coaches think there is another Irish player there available who could do a better job.
What you’re proposing is a theory that actually calls all of the individuals involved’s integrity into question.
you said it was to the chagrin of leinster management and fans but you forget carbery didnt really want to move either, but cullen and lancaster wanted at 15 so his hand was forced
if you dont think the irfu/national setup has influence over provincial selection then youre very wrong in how you think the system works
'Why would the IRFU, who's primary mandate is the success of Irish rugby, not want Munster and Ireland to develop and select the best possible player available?' - not that i think this is the case, but its pretty easy to think of justification here if you wanted. for example, the irfu could have looked at the situation in 2018 and thought, okay munster arent going to be successful for the foreseeable future anyway so lets give them carbery, if he eventually comes good we get an option for the national team and if he doesnt, theyre not going to be winning anything for a while so theres no great loss. leinster have the byrnes for when sexton is injured so theyre fine - problem solved. do i think this is what happened - no, is it inconceivable - also no.
'Any other kind of tinfoil hat theory suggesting otherwise doesn't stand up to scrutiny.' - except for the fact that it has been confirmed by a number of people, rob kearney for one, that this kind of interference by the irfu does happen
..
I went very cold on Joey after the Connacht game, but to be fair to him, he as proven me wrong since then
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