Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

The extension to Youghal is a different kettle of fish than the one from Middleton to Cork. Of course, stations in Castlemartyr and Killeagh there would increase the numbers of daily commuters a little, but this is not the main point.

For me, the difference between Youghal and any other line being re-opened in Co. Cork is the fact that this would be a connection from a good-sized city to a seaside resort. This adds a completely new dimension that would be available to few other places in Ireland (Derry to Buncrana and Belfast to Donaghdee come to mind; as does Waterford to Tramore - this last one is the only one that comes within the remit of CIÉ.

One other thing that I wonder about is why lines like this have to be broad-gauge railway - wouldn't a narrow-gauge light railway do the trick here? Particularly as we are not talking about huge numbers.

I'm not sure that's a major problem. In the past, multiple companies ran narrow-gauge railways around Ireland, most of them unconnected to any other.

Here's one from Co Cork - the Cork and Muskerry Light Railway.

And in fact, doesn't the Luas already run on a different gauge to the rest of our rail network, and this isn't considered too problematic?

A meter gauge connection to get the kiddies to the sea side? Sorry but this incredibly bizarre suggestion. Am I actually reading this or are you having a laugh?

I think the reasons for no extension to Youghal is the demand isn't there for a commuter rail service. Simple as that. I am a firm believer in the 'build it and they will come' approach with railways, but not in every case. Youghal would not be viable. Also there is basically wilderness between Middletown and Youghal and that is a long distance for a commuter line.

Whatever we're doing with trams and trains we should be aiming to go with absolute standardisation to reduce costs.

The problem with running light rail trams on the Cork commuter rail networks are fairly obviously.

1. High platforms make it impossible for modern trams to use stations. There are solutions to this - you could for example just fill in the platforms and use long, low incline ramped rails at either side, but that's also not that cheap to do, but we only have a handful of existing stations and it means any intermediate stops become a lot cheaper to do as they're just flat.
2. 1600mm gauge is used on the heavy rail network, which would mean you'd have to either replace the lines on the railways or build the tramways to an odd spec, which means custom trams and puts the costs up.
3. You can't safely mix light rail trams and heavy rail trains. So it would render the Cork-Mallow commuter links basically impossible on those lines.

In general trains and trams tend to stay on one route anyway and don't swap around much. So, it all becomes a bit pointless. Easy interchange between trains and busses now and future trams is more relevant.

Yeah, a proper tram system would be ideal for Cork and it could be grown out over time.

Unfortunately, I think Irish policy makers attitudes to public transport technologies is that they belong in other countries and that electrification outside of Dublin is unimaginably advanced for 'down the country'.

We've a mindset that keeps us decades behind the rest of Europe on this stuff. It's almost like we've a public transport philosophy from 1950s small town America.

But I didn't suggest it for Cork-Mallow, only for the Youghal line. Many countries have different gauges for trams and heavy railway. It isn't a huge issue - and in fact we do too, Luas runs on a standard gauge, while our rail network runs on a broader gauge.

I think a midleton Ballincolig tram would be amazing - an east west transport spine ,

That'll allow a couple of tram stops in Tivoli , new stations will be much cheaper , and the level crossing in midleton can be traffic lights ,or simpler causing less issues at rush hour , ( extra trains will mean the gates are closed almost permanently ) as well as allowing midleton station to become disabled access.

Keep mallow to Cobh as standard rail ..

According to TfL, there are 10 interconnects on the London Underground system where the walking distance between platforms is at least 7 minutes. When I worked at an Intel facility in Oregon, it used to take 10+ minutes at lunch time just to walk to the canteen in the next building. Google Maps estimates 8 minutes to walk between Kent and Parnell Place. Call me crazy but…

Is there any talk of rebranding the network in the same way the Dart was?

Yep that South Link Road used to be the train and it would be great if it was possible to revert it to some kind of train or tram use use but obviously a very big engineering project unfortunately. A tram to the airport would be well used: the business park alone generates many commuters.

Who said rip them up ? This is a pie in the sky discussion 😀😀😀

Dual guaging to Cobh cross , and there'll be all sorts of changes made in the hundred years before it'd be done ,

And that's assuming that a city b'collig tram gets done before that hundred years , it's likely to start life as a bus route ..

If it's left to CIE to brand it, you can expect some confusing mess - "InterCity Local" or something utterly daft.

The whole Cork urban bus and rail network should be a single, Cork specific brand. It also gets away from the nonsense that they're all distinct from each other and not part of a single unified system. There's a lot of psychology communicated in the way we do branding.

Honestly , C.A.R.T. is too good an opportunity to pass up ..

Or CLUAS in an little ear logo if they do a tram ..

On branding, the light rail will like be luas same as Dublin but no doubt locals will make some cluas quips, when the first line is built I don't think the second will be far behind, perhaps a north-south route.

I myself don't see what's wrong with CART? I would also be happy to see Belfast commuter services rebounded as BART. Why is it a problem?