The DUP refusing to let Sinn Fein have First Minister means a December Assembly Election. Will the numbers change in a fresh Election?
What parties seats are vulnerable or who might make gains in any constituencies ??
You would be a supporter if you vote for them. You would be giving them your vote which is effectively endorsing their policies and stances. The DUP will consider each and every vote for them as act of support and use this to claim their mandate (this is the same for any political party).
If you really don't support them, then don't vote for them. So many people all around the world, fought and died for democracy yet many who now have democracy are too quick to piss their vote up against the wall.
If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck etc etc.
You vote for a party you support them...maybe be temporary but it’s support for them. Nothing is clearer.
You say that in the present tense. I am not a dup supporter and don’t trust them as far as if throw them. I have said repeatedly that if we head into an election in the current state then they will get my vote - And I still won’t be a ‘dup supporter’.
How you square that with supporting the DUP is the conundrum.
One might think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here.
Very true. I am learning through participation on this forum that most northern nationalist are much more realistic about the need for compromise than many in the south. I don’t blame southerners for that, they are detached as are those on the mainland.
here is a northern nationalist neighbour of mine, steeped in republicanism and the GAA. He’s travelled and lived away and I think he is becoming an ambassador for OWC just like eg Carl frampton, etc with opposite upbringing, looking for fairness and respect.
how do we get to a position that people like those above grow such empathy for the ‘other side’, but masses of ordinary folks (like most of us on here) struggle.
if people would just listen to paddy and talk like he talks (on both sides) the the DUP and sf would be in big trouble and the protocol would not be so intractable
https://twitter.com/mrvirtuesignal/status/1614549131388657664?s=21
Seems most people have no issue with it. Any 'meltdown' seemed to come from those who couldn't cope with GSTHQ not being played in tandem. The prize of playing for Ireland or supporting Ireland as a team was bigger for people though as can be seen from the amount who want to play or support.
It was a sensible and mature way to deal with the issue IMO. The minimum amount of people are unhappy.
I guess the people who would like to see 'the middle ground parties benefit' are the middle ground parties
i completely agree that the DUP should have also admitted their mistakes. But if they had done it the same way as Leo we wouldnt be much further on as we'd have to guess what they were referring to also
dont know how you define meltdown, but the bloodyminded refusal to play only Irelands Call at rugby matches is a clear example of the inability of many to be fair
From Francies post a couple of posts ago. Leo said "I’m sure we’ve all made mistakes". I have no idea how you interoperate that as him not saying he made mistakes?. Clearly though no one knows what mistakes he feels he made so we are all still guessing
Well you can read your post in various ways, as in just relating narrowly to the current impasse or in a wider context of fairness.
Yes you're quite right that the DUP are refusing to co-operate and using the NI protocol as an issue. That is their right though, it is a legitimate political tactic and I guess they are hoping to get to fresh assembly elections where they hope to galvanise the vote and recover their position. We can't really blame them for using the mechanics of the GFA/ BA to advance their strategy.
So maybe there should be more focus on revising the agreement and way the assembly works, so that this binary nationalist/ unionist veto is disabled. I think a lot of people would support that and like to see the middle ground parties benefit and bring sense to the table.
There are people all over the island to whom 'change' is unthinkable.
Many here would not like to change flag or anthem, that is understandable. Would they have meltdowns if it had to happen, I doubt it.
A bit like Ireland's Call, many scream and shout about it, but has attendance or interest in Irish rugby suffered...not a bit.
Flags in a united Ireland is a discussion that is totally unrelated to this thread and to my post, and dragging attention away from this discussion.
The discussion here is that the NI Assembly can’t be formed while the DUP refuse to participate.
My point was that the quote by Leo is exactly what the DUP should have been saying all along, and it would have been better than what they’ve been doing.
Not from you or I Francie, but you well know that such changes are unthinkable to many in the south who just assume that's how it'd be. Let them like it or lump it attitude.
So no meltdowns over the flag or anthem. Ok.
Look what happened when there was a modest proposal Francie to commemorate the many Irishmen who served in the police force pre independence. Anytime, there's a suggestion that the sacred cow of the Irish language is treated in it's proper place even in the Republic, there's a storm of protest. And so on.
Where are these 'meltdowns'?
I have seen the poll that showed people don't want to change anthems or flag. Not seeing any meltdowns. Doesn't bother me BTW, happy to change both if neccesary.
"In a modern Irish Republic, I would say the vast majority of people would want fairness for the people of NI".............
But scratch the surface and you'll find that means fairness only on the basis of what nationalists think is proper:- tricolour, same national anthem, government in Dublin, Official Languages Act and constitution generally to apply as is on all Ireland basis etc etc. Try suggesting changes to any of above and there's a meltdown.
When GB had it's severe supermarket shortages last year, NI was basically unaffected just like ROI
Leo did not say he made mistakes.
The mistakes were made by others - presumably by Johnson and his cronies going for the hardest of Brexits.
This has obviously resulted in the current NI Protocol, that you dislike so much.
What exactly is NI deprived of due to the NI Protocol? Is not everything available in Dublin or Liverpool also available in Belfast?
The SPS controls predate the NIP.
If the DUP came out and said word for word what Leo said they would have achieved far more than they have with their approach so far.
In a modern Irish Republic, I would say the vast majority of people would want fairness for the people of NI, and our politicians seem to be saying the exact same thing.
If the UK government agree something that we think is unfair, what can we do about it?
The bottom line in all this is that Brexit was and is a cancer on the plans to manage the different traditions and allegiances on the island.
But once it came into play, all sides have been using it to leverage their particular strategy and degree of political influence. That applies to the Brits and the Unionists but also to northern nationalist republicans and the Republic of Ireland/ EU.
The only sure way to reconcile these is for the UK to rejoin the EU, Customs Union and preferably the Euro as well. Then we could all go back to a more 'normal' life.
Why don't you read what he said.
I’m sure we’ve all made mistakes in the handling of Brexit,” he told PA. “There was no road map, no manual, it wasn’t something that we expected would happen and we’ve all done our best to deal with it.”
Varadkar noted that the U.K.’s unilateral decisions not to impose full-fledged checks on goods arriving at Northern Ireland ports, as the EU wanted to happen, had not led to uncontrolled movement of goods into the Republic of Ireland, an EU member.
Referring to the reality that 85 percent of goods arriving in Northern Ireland stay within its territory, Varadkar said: “We’ve seen that the protocol has worked without it being fully enforced. And that’s why I think there is room for flexibility and room for changes.”
Folks you are answering questions that know one is asking which of course is a classic politicians tactic.
let me repeat the above
”Still waiting for someone to tell me what the mistakes were that Leo made and examples of implementation that has already gone too far?”
Data sharing agreed.
Border posts being built.
Protocol Bill shelved.
Talks going into the tunnel
And the DUP about to make another huge strategic blunder by ending devolution.
You couldn’t make it up really.
There hasn't been any EU caving, nor will there be to get the DUP back in Stormont. The UK Government, on the other hand, are the one backing down from their ridiculous position.
The Irish Sea border exists, and will remain - the DUP can accept that or continue to act like children. Very stupid children who don't realise they've never got what they wanted; except that time they forced the situation that created the protocol.
Power sharing is no longer a bargaining chip.
Like when the DUP refused (and still do) to sign up to the multi party aspect of the GFA and railed against the Anglo Irish Agreement, the world will move on without them.
Still waiting for someone to tell me what the mistakes were that Leo made and examples of implementation that has already gone too far?
Oh there is no way that will be accepted. I think you have misunderstood my post. I am simply pointing out the nonsense of the eu checks
I think it is obvious that the eu have caved on the requirements to check masses of goods moving from gb to ni. Unfortunately that is not the main issue. So don’t be mistaken that unionists will accept this. This, when announced, will just be another stop on the journey. We’ll bank it and move on to the next issue. The crocodiles have a big appetite.
if you think there is the remotest chance of the red lanes / green lanes being enough to get stormont up again then you are far removed from reality.
Which of the stages of grief does this map to? Trying to explain away the border in the Irish Sea being very very real, the protocol staying and the DUP going under the Wrightbus for another set of tyre tracks.
