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Micro wind turbines

mickdw

Are turbines useful at all compared to pv.

I see lots of too good to be true products advertised but google quickly suggests they are either crap or plain lying about power figures.

Don't see many getting installed but you would imagine they would be useful

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bullit_dodger

Well your controller that you buy will dictate what you will be working with. With the ISTA breeze being AC, your controller will need to have an AC input for the wind turbine of correct voltage capable of handling what the ISTA breeze is putting out. Then the controller will (most likely) output DC to your immersion load. I don't know what the ISTA puts out. There are probably different models some with 24V and some with 48V. A few controllers can handle different 24V/48V and will automatically swap as necessary.

I'm not really an expert in this. Sure - I know a fair bit as i've an interest in it and watch a lot of Youtube videos on people who have them, but the ideal thing here is to get to talk to someone who's got one running.

Dtp1979

has anyone here got experience with them? I tried calling them but the chap could barely speak English

championc

I have a 12v Ista Breeze 800w on the bench awaiting a pole, better weather and time 😀. Not high on my priority list.

I have connected it through a bridge rectifier and spun it with my drill and starts generating a voltage pretty quickly, but I expect low current.

I connected it to my charge controller connected to a 24v battery, and it started producing power at about 13v and then rose as it spun faster. So even though it is a 12v unit, I will go with 24v, especially because I have an old inverter which will take 22 - 65v

I'm in Sth. Dublin. PM me if that's of any help

reboot

Unless there are electronics involved, is an immersion heater not simply a resistive load and therefore...?

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068335#Comment_120068335

Therefore what?

slave1

He/She is alluding that it can take variable power input, put a low power input into a non-resistive load and nothing, put 200w into a 3kW immersion and it will take the 200w and use it to (trickle) heat the water

reboot

Quite. Don't think AC or DC matters if we are only talking about a resistor.

My home mains Willis type immersion is 3kw.

It will draw around 12 Amps,as each kilowatt is 4 Watts.

1000 Watts devided by 250 volts equals 4 Amps.

Nelbert

If you are working it out for a breaker and / or the cable it'll be connected to it's better to divide by 220v (given it varies) to size appropriately (i.e. oversize for safety).

reboot

Trying to keep things simple in that 250 goes into 1000, 4 times.

In fact the power company tell me they only guarantee the voltage in the city 5 %. and in rural areas it can vary considerably. But I take your point.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071500#Comment_120071500

ESB standard is 10% each way on 230 v, so 207-253 is within standard.

That's why a 80amp fuse is rated as a 16kva supply

reboot

Thanks for that and the correct use of KVA.

stickman1019

Where are people buying the turbines from ?

Iv looked at some YouTube video and the AliExpress seem to be very hit and miss

reboot

I found a turbine company in Mayo.carbon free energy,after searching the net over a couple of years.

Horizontal,100 Watts,blades 3 ft diagonal.

It's only about 10 ft off the ground,so I don't forget and put my hand up.! On a day of about 15 knots it produces 5 Amps into a 12 volt system which includes solar pv.

Think the turbine came originally from UK.i paid Mayo €200. 3 phase rectifier or controller was extra.

It's performed well over 3 years,and an optimum size and weights for a man to comfortably handle,Good luck,PV is much easier.

reboot

Interesting that all the 3 phase 22kva charge points in these parts are marked as 22kw.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120081095#Comment_120081095

Well people get kW and kWh mixed up.. let's not confuse things with apparent and real power.

Also charging would have a power factor of 1 or very close to to it so it's 22kW

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120081245#Comment_120081245

Agree. kW and kva are pretty close, both are at least units of power. kWh isnt like either of them.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068853#Comment_120068853

Thats basically what the Eddi system does with PV. Though when the thermostat hits its temperature limit, power gets exported to ESB.

In his situation, there must be a plan in place when the thermostat hits its limit.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084852#Comment_120084852

There is no thermostat. If the water temp in the 2,000L tank ever got over 70ish degrees I’d dump it to a heating zone in the house. I’d also have 2 temp release valves on the buffer just in case. It’s an open vented system.

Nelbert

You've had several people tell you that you need an electrical "safety valve" (dump load or grid tie) or risk burning out equipment.

What's the value in dumping in to heating zone in July though?

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092840#Comment_120092840

And I’ve listened to those people and I will absolutely be installing a dump load restrictor. My above post is about water temp. In July, I’ll dump it to the hot water circuit first. Then to a heating zone if necessary.

Nelbert

Still think you're mad not to do grid tie and something like an Eddi. To be generating enough to heat a 2000l tank and not have that energy available other than in water of various forms / zones. Will eliminate water heating requirements but could do so much more, potentially.

All in cost might be similar too when you factor in controllers, dump loads etc. for 6 turbines.

championc

Especially when the wind exceeds expectations. Removes the need for anything to do with dumploads. Add solar later and it just joins the overall solution, rather than ultimately being separate.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097287#Comment_120097287

I’ve scratched the idea of 6 turbines. I’m going with 2 2,000 watt. Personally I can’t ever see a situation where the buffer is overheated but I may be wrong. How much extra would an Eddi cost?

championc

I think Eddi's are about €600. Hopefully you found links to the GTIL2 inverter. An Eddi will simply work off whatever excess it sees going to the grid, irrespective of it's source

bullit_dodger

I tend to agree with you dtp1979 that it'd be a rare day that you'll have the buffer overheated, but that's not why the dump load resistors are in place. Conceivably you could have a burnt out element inside the immersion tank, and you'll need an alternative load for where the electricity goes. You'll wreck the turbine which could have cost you north of €1000 without one. They are relatively cheap too.

There is another case which we didn't talk about. Most charge controllers monitor the current output which is being generated from the turbine. If the turbine is in a hurricane (something like this week by all accounts :-) the blades could be spinning excessively fast. Fast enough that the rpm could exceed the rated rpm of the turbine, and the blades will damage itself...if not fly off. The charge controller then applies the "brake" which is that dump load resistor. When you place the load on the turbine, it slows it down.

I like your idea of 2x bigger turbines. I would probably though go with 1 small'ish turbine as a test bed first though like you originally suggested. If you can't heat a 200-300L tank with say a 500w turbine, then you might save yourself a bit of grief purchasing a larger turbine. Perhaps the wind resource you have isn't as good as it seems. (I don't know - I'm just saying to hopefully avoid disappointment down the road)

As mentioned, I for one am rooting for you.

Dtp1979

I know the difference between a dump load resistor and dumping heated water, thanks to the info I got here on boards. I’m not against dumping to the grid I just don’t think there will be anything to dump. At the moment the heating is costing just over 3k a year. Electricity is only 1200ish. My long term plan is to put PV on the house to supplement the electricity. By then I might add in the turbines if I find they’re over heating the tank.

first I have to find a 500/600watt turbine to test on the cylinder as the one I showed earlier in the thread, as admitted by the manufacturer a few days ago, will produce nothing over 100watts. How they’re allowed to sell these things claiming 600watt is beyond me.

Nelbert

At least they admitted it before you bought! Loads advertised with their daily energy output dressed up as their instantaneous power output.

Im in a housing estate with about 15m of distance the most I could get a turbine away from the house and in the clear (would be clear in North South direction for couple of hundred metres but boxed in about 30m on the other side making a north South wind tunnel).

Even something that generated 100w+ in those conditions is likely too big to be wife and neighbour friendly.

Your wider plan provides better context. Dump load resistor and you're good. An energy monitor be good to assess output and put you in a position to merge it with the solar if it's outputting enough.... Or even a changeover for summer when the heat is less useful to you.

Dtp1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099946#Comment_120099946

Never thought of a changeover in summer. Good idea

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099946#Comment_120099946

The planning restrictions in built up areas/estates are brutal, effectively eliminates them out of the equation

reboot

It's interesting how micro wind turbines thread soon morphs into kilowatts and water heating,inverters and kilowatts

I've noticed a similar upscaling of small scale and cheap PV thread,which few seem interested in,and want more bigger,dearer, from the start,

My own,perfectly adequate for my needs, turbine and PV setup cost a few hundred Euro, has been of great interest and fun,as a small project.

Maybe there is a definition in the thread somewhere of Micro,as opposed to?

Perhaps we may be in danger of making the average ,slightly interested viewer switch off ,(sorry); if we very quickly appear to over complicate small,micro set ups ,particularly in the field of

Electrical/electronics?