I wonder how this will work out for him
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and disciplinary sanction is exactly what the school have done. He hasn't been sacked. The disciplinary hearing will decide his faith, as it should. Burke has done his best to stymie that process. He doesn't think he has done anything wrong.
A pupil publically disparaging a member of staff is grounds for suspension, correct. Is it correct then to take it you are inferring that Burke publically disparaged the Principal?
If that's the case, we don't know if Burke made disparaging remarks to the Principal. I haven't seen a transcript of what Burke is alleged to have said at the function. I don't think one is public knowledge but happy to be corrected on that. For all we know, he may have only been complaining about the Policy that the school had issued and said nothing disparaging about the Principal, and only the Policy.
We only have the media etc. reports saying that Burke was aggressive towards the Principal and the media aren't always right. We don't know if that's true or not. You can see in this thread how things can be misinterpreted, i.e. people believing he was jailed for not calling a boy a girl when he was actually jailed for ignoring a court order.
My personal view is that he is a plonker but, if he was only shouting/talking loudly/whatever at the Principal about the Policy and didn't get personal with her, then I don't think it's a sackable offence. Probably some sort of disciplinary sanction but maybe not sacking. Breaking the court order is another matter and I'd boot (not literally) him up the hole and out the door for that - correct procedures n'all that followed etc. or else the school, the Pope, the Head of the GAA and everyone else will be sued by him.
I think many posters here think this case/ issue is about transgenderism
Nope, just you, a few others and the Burkes.
again you mischaracterise things. there wasn't a row between the teacher and the principal. burke decided to verbally abuse the principal publicly and had to separated from the principal. One person shouting at another who us trying to get away is not a row.
I think many posters here think this case/ issue is about transgenderism and they frame it that way in their minds, which biases them. But it's not about transgenderism, that was merely the trigger.
This case/ issue is about a teacher who disagreed with a development of school policy on the basis of his religious views. It's about a row that developed between the teacher and the principal as a result and his subsequent suspension which has led to this. I suspect Burke rightly wants the issue heard in the courts whilst the school wishes to avoid the courts if at all possible.
Instead of Burke and transgenderism, let's suppose this was one of the teachers mentioned above who are atheists or from a different religion and yet who are obliged to offer religious instruction in a Catholic national school. Let's suppose they have Burke's guts and principles and went to the principal/ BOM/ parish priest and say 'I'm not going to teach this *insert word of choice* to the children anymore'. Let's suppose a row develops, words are exchanged, the teacher is suspended and refuses to comply. How would people view that? I'm thinking there are many here who decry Burke but who would be cheering this other principled teacher to the rafters.
This is how the case should be viewed imho, why the school was unwise to suspend Burke and why they don't want this coming near the courts.
Guess_Who threadban lifted
Prison is no deterrent for him. It wouldn't surprise me if he wishes he was back in there, where he can continue to be a martyr. It's obvious that the plan is for the school to hold its rescheduled disciplinary hearing now that he's out of prison, and put an end to this saga. He's happy to go back to prison, yet for some reason he's desperate to stop the hearing going ahead...
They called the Gardaí last week AFAIK, who fobbed it off as a civil matter.
Let's just say if it was Tesco he would have been dragged out of there and charged with criminal trespass.
It's up to the school to take steps to have it enforced, and when and how fast to do that is a tactical decision for them. Anasopra has pointed to considerations which might lead the school to think that right now they are better off exploring other avenues first.
It looks very much as though Burke wants to be returned to prison; it's not necessarily in the school's best interests to rush to indulge him in that.
The school would have to complain to the gardai
AFAIK the school have to reactivate the order by going back to court.
They haven't, one would assume is because they want the hearing to take place and they want this weasel permanently off the payroll.
It does raise questions though, why this guy hasn't long been charged with criminal contempt or criminal trespass is a complete and utter mystery.
Probably because his suspension hearing is on 19th January and his hight court injunction to stop the suspension is on 11th January
I wonder why the court order is not being enforced?
If an ordinary ‘Joe’ disregarded a court order I’m confident they would be in trouble
Where does this issue stand now as surely we can’t have a situation where court orders are ignored?
Dav argues about the characterisation of whether 'questioning loudly' qualifies as "a history of violence" (Boggles) and of course that is untakeable and causes multi-page arguments.
Lets keep it factual will we. I know it could be a struggle.
Dav said
A robust exchange of views is not violence
You don't get suspended for that do you?
Discuss.
Please again, if we could keep it factual. I mean there is no point having a debate on what sanitised version of the Burke supporters on here believed happened, is there?
👍️
Every time I read about or see a picture of this guy I cant help but be reminded of Mr Logic from Viz.
wtf
now it's not what I post it's what I don't post that you take exception to?
wtf???
nobody is obliged to pour their whole life out onto Boards for your entertainment pal.
Get a grip
The school escalated the situation 😂😂
Utter horsesh!te
no offence but claiming Burke wasn’t the instigator isn’t a whole lot of use to anyone but him and his ego ig
No I don't want people to be silenced.
But I observe a lot of your and others' posting as being mostly negative and oppositional.
You don't offer any new or inspiring vision of life yourself. You're against theism and the mores of the past and all your energy seems to be spent on that.
What comes next after you've demolished all your opponents?
The secondary school that our kids go too, one has a friend who has changed her name and is know as they in class and the teachers just get on with teaching and no attention is drawn to the situation. The school has multiple nationalities and religion and has its policies which the children and teachers adhere to every day, no pressure or spotlight is put on the child and this is the way it should be instead of bullying and mental health issues or worse. Burke situation is about him and his religious beliefs and trying to force it on other people.
Maybe he thought the policies were just there for show and wouldn't actually be applied?
I also dont quite understand - Its hard to say when the admission and anti bullying policies which are explicitly inclusionary were introduced but I suspect they are not very recent. I do wonder why Burke accepted the job if the school had such policies.
Fair enough, my thread browsing doesn't extend to pages like that so I'll take your word for it.
It's not the 1950s any more, people are not obliged to be silent even if you'd rather they were
Also - so what? Bitching about who posts in what thread is an amazing level of pettiness. Do you think the fall of the catholic church from its position of incredible unaccountable power in Ireland to the present and its accelerating decline is a topic worthy of discussion?
If you don't, I suggest you get over it.
You see some of the exact same posters on such classic threads as "Fall of the Catholic Church" (65 pages), commenting on almost every page.
Of course it helps here that Burke is mostly or wholly in the wrong.
I'd be reasonably familiar with posters on here and, yeah, that's not really an accurate account of what's happening on this thread. As you well know.
I suspect because this is the first time a situation like this arose. There is no doubt he should have recognised and acknowledged that the parents/Principal’s request was consistent with the schools ethos, but you are dealing with a person who has religious beliefs on a whole different level to most people.
What misinformation?
A pupil publicly disparaging a member of staff is grounds for suspension. Imagine if someone had stood up at the podium at that school event and called Burke a bigot? even though he is one
Privately making a bullying complaint is not, of course, but you know that was not what I was talking about. Again with the disingenuous posting. But the important thing to remember is that you do not support Burke. 👍️
Why do you keep trying to pretend Burkes actions were reasonable and the schools actions were unreasonable though.
Its not a policy per se though. Its a decision consistent with all of the school policies. The school admission and anti bullying policies all set out recognition of inclusion and diversity. You'd wonder why Burke never objected before to any of them.
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