Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
Interesting short read from Murray Kinsella.
i wouldve much preferred to see healy step up in the shootout of course and yes he should have done better realistically, but remember that o gara was arguably worse the first time he was put in a similar-ish position and that ended up working out fairly well afterwards
i disagree that he didnt perform against exeter, while he wasnt brilliant he was fine and i wouldve kept him in the starting team. carbery isnt on the level of an o gara or sexton but he is treated as such, i however think he should have to earn the jersey back anytime he comes back from injury rather than just getting it handed to him
i dont think you can discount the SA A game just because they were thrown together, yes they were quite poor but that was partly down to munster not letting them play too. and the NZ XV was similarly just thrown together and they showed ireland A up pretty well the previous week. along with that game, the wasps game last season was pretty great on healy's part for one, even the scarlets game a few years ago where healy kinda came to be first known showed alot of bottle. part of the problem though was that carbery would generally get straight back into the team for big games (and JJ too for some reason) without earning his spot, so healy had very little chance to actually show how good he was
It’s a good headache to have,
From 1-23 there’ll be a lot of tough calls, and this is arguably the biggest game of the season so far now, have to win.
I’d go with:
Kilcoyne, Scannell, Ryan,
Beirne, Kleyn,
O’Mahony, Coombes, Hodnett.
Casey, Carbery,
Daly, Fekitoa, Frisch, Nash,
Haley.
Bench: Barron (if shoulder injury keeps him out then Buckley), Wycherley (if rib injury keeps him out then O’Connor the only other senior loose-head), Archer, O’Donoghue, Kendellen, Murray, Healy, Crowley.
Bit of a call to make at 12 too.
Assuming Carbery starts at 10, has Fekitoa done enough in the last two games to take the 12 shirt off Crowley?
Big decision at 9 for the weekend.
Casey started vs Toulouse (with Patterson on the bench) but Murray started the following week vs Northampton, so it seems like that was only because Murr was coming back from injury.
Since then, we've seen Casey come off the bench vs Leinster and be much, much better. We've seen Murray come off the bench v Ulster and be very good.
I'd personally love to see Casey start with Murray off the bench for 20-25 mins to manage the game out (hopefully with a lead at that point).
If you look at the 23 from Friday night there was only one, maybe two players who'll be involved in the 6N squad. That doesn't include guys like Ahern, Edogbo, Wycherley, Conway, Knox and (maybe) Snyman who should be back from injury by then. Then there's Niall Scannell, Frisch, Zebo and hopefully Chris Farrell. Even without the internationals, Munster would be sending a strong enough squad to SA.
I think one of the benefits of our injury woes this year and last year, is that we have given game time to lots of very promising younger players and we can trust them to perform. It's like 'whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger'
Assuming the injured players return we could have a young, but very good touring team.
Would absolutely love to see the likes of Edogbo, Quinn and Okake, Jack O Sullivan, Buckley on that tour to try their luck against the stormers.
A similar team that played the SA-A team in November could do a number on either the Stormers or the Bulls
Not expecting to win those games, but at least one LBP could be valuable
Yes!
Maybe, maybe not. If we need points in SA to ensure we play Heineken Cup next then I can see us sending a strong squad there regardless of where we are in this year's cup
ERC QF.
Round of 16 is the week previous (1st and 2nd of April).
Munster touring strength for South Africa will be up in the air until we see how they are doing in Europe. Out in the last 16 might see a full strength touring party while winning a quarter final might see Munster limiting themselves.
Am I right to say the weekend before Stormers (A) (i.e., 8th/9th April) will be R16 of the ERC?
I suspect Munster won't be bringing any Ireland players to SA however. You'd have to be happy with two LBPs from those games.
We should be winning the next 4 games. Benetton will be affected far more by 6N call ups than Munster and Munster are in a much better place right now than Ulster. Glasgow will be the toughest of the run, but in Thomond we should be beating them.
When it comes to the SA trip, last year both games were at altitude and that's what cost us both times. This year we play in Durban and Cape Town and it won't be nearly as hot or humid as it was on the high veldt. Tougher opposition yes, but a much fitter and better coached Munster.
I'm hopeful we'll have learnt a bit from the SA tour last year. We played some great stuff, particularly in the Lions game, but the opposition is tougher this time to be fair.
I think 13 points from those 3 home games is very possible.
And I'd nearly rather go into an away QF with some momentum and improving performances than a home QF in poor form.
Updating the above:
Ulster (A) - 4 points
Lions (H) - 5 points
Pretty much exactly what the doctor ordered, and makes 32 points with 6 games to play
Benetton (A)
Ospreys (H)
Scarlets (H)
Glasgow (H)
Stormers (A)
Sharks (A)
Here's a simple projection of the league table if you took each team's average points per game so far, and just multiply by 18:
It's sorted by CURRENT position, but you can see to get 7th and avoid an ERC playoff, you're still looking at around 50 points. 59 for a home QF (probably best to just forget about that for now).
3 wins from the coming 4 (all winnable) and a couple of bonus points mixed in, and we're pretty much where we want to be for 7th, i.e., ~46 heading into the SA tour.
Aside from the match points beating Glasgow isn't much use to us as one from that conference as well as the top placed Welsh side has to get into The ERC. Ulster could have done us a huge favour yesterday if they kept the lead to beat Benetton.
But we must do our part too and just keep winning.
Benetton game is huge, but I'd fancy Munster in that one - especially during the 6N.
Under no circumstances are Coombes, Frisch and Haley good enough for international rugby and none should be anywhere near the Irish camp*.
(*that particular week)
Ugh, sorry indeed. Always get that mixed up.
8th probably won't get Champions Cup, but will be in the play offs.
8th won't get into the playoffs either unless Cardiff manage to make it up to there.
Ulster's game in hand is away to the Sharks. They also go to Glasgow. Glasgows game in hand is away to the Lions.
Sharks other game in hand is a derby v the Stormers. There are also two more rounds of SA derbys during the 6N, so they'll all be taking points off each other.
It isn't nearly as clear cut as the table suggests.
Munster in 7th after Glagow win over the Stormers going into the break for Champions Cup. Stormers, Ulster and Glagow in 2nd, 4th and 5th all have games in hand. Sharks in 9th and 3 points behind Munster have 2 games in hand.
Of the teams currently ahead of us in the table playing Benetton, Glasgow and Stormers between now and the end of the season.
Absolutely but the comment I replied to was directly in relation to them being picked for Ireland. Both are hugely valuable to Munster though.
True for Ireland, however in relation to Munster, which is what started this conversation, both are game breakers and absolute quality players.
Keenan can play and has played wing for Ireland.
Kearney was a specialist full back. Which pretty much meant we never had another one on the squad while he was there. Same now with Keenan, who is first choice by some distance. As I said if Keenan was ruled out for a long time it might open the door.
Im sure both will get a few caps but it’s very hard to see either ever be a regular starter for Ireland, or England/France, in the way that Zebo, Conway and Earls were at various stages over the last 10 years. our backline is absolutely stacked with good players, at least in the back 3, but I don’t think we have any great or even very good players outside 10.
I think that’s the point tho; we can afford a specialist FB for 1st choice players, but further down the pecking order, versatility is more valuable.
(And I think Keenan got his first cap or 2 on the wing, fwiw).
Way to completely miss the point.
Kearney and Keenan were/are the best in their position in the country.
They don't need to be versatile.
It's the second string player who needs to be more versatile if they want more international honors from the bench.
Stephen clearly said above that if Keenan wasn't available Haley would get a look in.
Made no difference to rob kearney or Hugo Keenan atm been just a specialist full back
Haley’s inability to play any other position will always hold him back. If Keenan was ruled out completely. I’d imagine Haley would get a look in but while he’s not. It’s unlikely Haley will be involved.
Frisch should definitely make the wider squad and then it depends how he gets on in training. He may well leapfrog Hume but there’s still McCloskey, Aki, Possibly Henshaw and Ringrose ahead of him.
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