I wonder how this will work out for him
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Society is simply evolving, for the better. What passed ten years ago, may not now. Really not that long ago when same sex couples would be very much under the radar. You can still see it avoided by many in sport in many countries. Now openly accepted here. This is an evolving process. The only problem I would have addressing someone as 'they' is that I find it confusing grammatically, my brain is finding it hard to process. The only solution for this guy is a daily fine. We'll see how far the Burke family runs with it when the pocket is getting hit.
Lots of people holding their cards close to their chest cause they see that there is official disapproval of dissent on the trans issue.
Silence shouldn't be interpreted as enthusiasm.
Oh yes you have. Your arguments became so desperate that you brought brake dust and rubber into it 😂
I have indeed made my position clear. Does a solicitor or barrister need to have an interest in every subject they are defending their clients against, or can they just use relevant nd related content to make their argument? My lack of interest in women's sport does not mean I don't have a valid opinion and viewpoint on things that unfairly impact women in their sport. I don't have to give, or have an opinion on any other factors such as funding or media coverage in order to validate my opinion of the relevant subject matter. So please take the goalposts out your arse and if you wish, we can have an honest and open discussion, even if we disagree.
Which fits the definiton of an accost - "to approach and address (someone) boldly or aggressively."
He also did it not once, but twice. First he interrupted the church service, and then again, afterwards at the dinner hosted by the school.
It's also reported that he was so persistant in his pursuit of the Principal that other staff members felt it was so bad they needed to intervene.
I don't see how anyone could describe that as anything less than an accost, unless they're being deliberately pedantic.
€500 fine for each day he shows up at the school, in contempt of a court order.
You can make all types of suppositions and use whatever emotive language you want, but according to the papers Principal McShane’s complaint describes him walking after her, questioning loudly.
Context is also important, loudly in a chapel or dining hall may not be the same as shouting loudly on a pitch or in a school yard.
Maybe the DH will reveal more detail, for now you are only speculating.
I guess it depends who you are drinking with.
Well yes of course but I was just giving a brief on what word on the ground is around these parts on this topic lest anyone thinks this part of the world is laden with backward evangelical types. Anyway they were all similar types of people, one of them I know is a civll servant and the rest of a similar class I'd imagine. They certainly weren't upper middle class lefties which I'm sure from that demographic I might have heard a different option since those are the people who are behind all this 'evolving' in the first place.
Oh and just to be clear, when I said there was no sympathy for the child I didn't mean any distress this incident may have caused them rather the general idea of using transitional language for kids at school and all that kind of malarkey.
Confusion felt on this topic which is quite common is a symptom of the fact that the premise doesn't make any sense so what follows doesn't make any sense either. The confusion will never go away.
Ok, so you're choosing to stick with the pedantry - that's fine.
As opposed to your speculation? Yes, I’ll stick with Principal’s account.
You haven't read the Principal's account. It hasn't been made public.
It’s been quoted in the papers, reported at the time he was suspended.
“The school claims that she said she would speak to Mr Burke at a appropriate time and place, and walked away from him.
It is claimed that he continued to follow her and questioned her loudly.”
https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/injunction-granted-against-westmeath-teacher-who-refused-to-address-trans-pupil-as-they/118537923.html
“A report by Ms McShane claimed he followed her, questioned her loudly and others had to step between them.”
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/heated-questioning-of-his-principal-a-work-suspension-and-an-ignored-court-order-how-enoch-burke-was-jailed-for-contempt-of-court-41963789.html
A lot of newpapers also reported that Burke was imprisoned for refusing to use pronouns.
When you have a link to the Principal's account, and not a quote from a media source, please share a link so we can all read it.
Sorry, watching end of Liverpool match, I added the links, one references the report from Ms McShane.
Which papers reported he was jailed for refusing to use pronouns?
It's really weird to see folks trying to give this guy a pass. I work for a large MNC and we have a lot of Diversity and Inclusion stuff going on. If I were to publicly harangue one of the folks in charge of that, or even someone slightly involved - I'd be getting my papers.
So the child wanted to bd called them/they and he wanted to use the child's actual name?? Strange case.
Who is giving him a pass? He is making a fool of himself, making himself unemployable, and showing his intolerance.
You do understand that in your case, you would still have the right to a DH and take a case for unfair dismissal. Just because your job gives you your papers doesn’t mean you roll over if you feel you are being wronged.
I'd say you need to read up a bit more on the case.
I'm not sure if I can post links yet, but here is an interesting article that mentions how the media was reporting on the issue.
https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-in-the-news/the-case-of-enoch-burke-and-how-media-coverage-can-play-into-the-hands-of-extremists/
and the article mentioned in the above.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40958879.html
As I said, let us know when you have a link to the principal's account. I'd be interested to read it.
Eh, you're giving him a pass, going by your posts. You seem to be in agreement with his intolerance. But maybe you're just playing devil's advocate. Hard to tell on here anymore.
The report from the Principal was served to Burke prior to his suspension.
“The school commenced that process on foot of a report compiled by its then principal Niamh McShane, after he publicly voiced, at an event in June marking the 260th anniversary of the founding of the school, opposition to her direction in May to all staff to address a student, who wishes to transition, by a different name and to use the pronoun “they” rather than he or she”
”On August 15, he received a letter from the principal enclosing a copy of a report prepared by her and furnished to the Board of Management. The report was stated to be in accordance with stage 4 of the procedures for the suspension and dismissal of teachers as provided for in a Department of Education circular.”
”The report’s allegation that he had followed her around the room and continued to question her loudly was “entirely false”.”
This is the report referenced by the media, do I have a copy to give you? No, unfortunately I do not. But it doesn’t change the fact that the papers are quoting the report.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40960106.html
Where have I agreed with his intolerance? Quote the post.
If you copy and paste the headline into google, it was a Uk rag, the Daily Mail. No doubt some supportive US media outlets followed suit, to my knowledge no domestic media outlet made that claim, but I could be wrong.
Coincidentally, the examiner link you posted to support your point contains the following paragraph.
“The school stated that the principal told Mr Burke that she would speak to him at an appropriate time and walked away but that Mr Burke followed her and continued to question her loudly”
You've about 50 posts on this thread over the last day or so. You're in his corner. Anyway, good luck and good night.
Should be very easy for you to quote one post where I agree with his intolerance.
Go ahead, you made the claim, back it up.
It's a strange case alright and looks like he doesn't actually have a strategy other than to maximize press attention.
From how he's conducted himself, his dismissal must be considered a foregone conclusion once the process actually completes, and given what we know, it's unlikely any court will overturn that on appeal.
A genuinely held objection to transgenderism could have been handled by all much better. Certainly an arrangement could have been developed where EB was instructed to not address the student at all and an undertaking by the school to not place the student in his classroom. The way EB has conducted himself is as if he is seeking martyrdom. The problem for him is that the world will spin on but he will carry this for the rest of his working life. There is no positive endgame here for him.
They crave these people who will keep their name in the spotlight.
No that wasn't his crime. He is in jail for disobeying a court order. It's not complicated.
The initial disciplinary action was for his abusive interactions with the principal.
And if you feel the need to admire him suit yourself, I certainly have no admiration for the man.
If the school has a particular policy then he should accept it or get a different job.
Plenty of non religious work in Catholic schools and do the whole mass, prayer stuff etc, because it is school policy.
What does that mean?
I honestly think that he’ll become unemployable and that they will need to stay relevant in order to receive funds from somewhere…
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