This guys in the news quite a lot recently.
This seems a bit too far. Is primary a bit too young for this ideology? Certainly “endocrine supports” for young kids seems a bit scary as the changes can be irreversible.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/transgender-issues-should-be-part-of-primary-curriculum-says-childrens-minister-roderic-ogorman-42256827.html
Threadbans
The Orb
irishfreeview
RobbieTheRobber
I don't know fandy I suggest you contact him directly to ask.
But as this minister for that department would you not agree he has quite some responsibility in child development currently in this country?
So in a list of say
Minister for children
Childless users of boards
Parents
Children
educators
Others involved in child development
Who would you say has more of a valid reason to be in this dicussion and whose concerns should be least important?
I am 39 and have three children, aged 17, 9, and 7. I assume I now meet the allowed criteria to comment on this.
Children are incredibly impressionable. A child who's struggling to fit in, and doesn't have many friends starts hearing that sometimes a boy/girl is actually born in the wrong body. They latch on to that, and start to believe it about themselves. Teachers, childrens charities, and medical professionals captured by an ideology based on nothing but feelings decide that the only correct course of action is to affirm this new gender identity. It snowballs from there to puberty blockers, and cross sex hormone therapy.
Everyone should read Dr Cass' interim report.
There are more than enough detransitioners with horrible stories of how messed up their lives are now, who know had they not been affirmed they'd have been better off.
Let children be children. If they want to be non-conforming to gender stereotypes, let them, but they do not need adults influencing them in ways that are potentially very, very harmful.
I suggest you go back and read the post/posts that you are misquoting.
I have not said what you think I said.
I love "childless old men with zero expertise or knowledge" if they happen to agree with my ideologies.
So far when challenged no one has presented any actual issue with something that has been or will be introduced to the curriculum but many posters remain outraged that something not yet defined might be added to the curriculum.
Got it.
Outrage for outrage sake!
There’s probably an online course he take for that. “Child development”.
It's amazingly homophobic when you think about it. I expected better.
Whatever about childless old men, the last couple of ministers in this portfolio have been absolute fad merchants.
That said, social policy formation in government has now been completely outsourced to the loudest NGOs.
Nothing surprises me anymore, however I won't have my rights to determine my child's education trampled on. No doubt, the system will make this as difficult as possible.
Who suggested the teachers would be guiding them anywhere. Just letting them know that there are people who have different gender expression.
Do yea think teachers would be trying to “turn” children?
I’m certain you’re right about there being plenty of parents who don’t want their children learning about this stuff too, but that’s really neither here nor there.
They do teach it to their children themselves, and they’re often as lost and confused about the whole thing as their children are when their children identify themselves as transgender. I’m talking about the reality of the situation in Irish society, as it is currently, not the ideological nonsense that gets punted about online. Your suggestion has come up before in relation to a number of things children learn at school that people feel should be taught to children at home by their parents.
The fact is that wouldn’t change whether or not schools are entitled to offer an education on the topic, and they do, and parents who support that, enrol their children in those schools. Parents who don’t wish to have their children exposed to it have about 90% of other schools in Ireland to choose from 😂
It should be obvious why the State’s involved in Education.
Aye. Remember this?
NGOs literally praising legislation being passed "under the radar". We don't live in a democracy in Ireland, we live in a "democracy"
Children shouldn’t be told about anything so I guess. Just in case they make a bad decision in their teens. No child who has been sheltered from the world has ever had a bad experience. Information only ever leads to harm.
I accept and support trans people.
However, educating primary school children on transgenderism is a whole other proposal and is not one to be stepped into lightly - just because someone thinks "what harm can it do" and "it will make children more accepting of transgenderism". That's not good enough if you don't actually know that it could possibly be harmful in some circumstances. Children and teens and young adults can indeed latch onto mistaken ideas about themselves, and are often totally black and white in their thinking, with little acceptance of the nuanced issues involved. I know this from personal experience in discussing trans issues with my teen and young adult. I would absolutely disagree that my teen is in any way mature enough to make a lifelong decision on their identity.
I think at primary school level children should just be encouraged to accept that people and families are different in a vast number of ways, and that we should all accept those differences.
I have no need to read them back, I and many others have read what you said.
Shame on you for those posts.
I don’t think there is a proposal to do anything other than what you suggest in your last paragraph.
Nothing directly to replace it.
You have not "got it".
You cried off with what you perceived as an insult when you are more than happy to throw around vague and baseless insults yourself.
You keep repeating the "outrage for outrage sake", "won't someone think of the children" or your "childless middle aged men" mantra, but you've done nothing to further the discussion, you have only sidetracked it more, and then pull up others (only from the side you disagree with mind you) for not going on topic. Is that ironic? Or just silly and hypocritical?
I posted two quotes from the article which were more than enough to warrant a discussion.
Just because you didn't understand why people might have an issue, doesnt mean that nobody presented an issue, it doesn't mean it is outrage for outrage sake, it just means that you are unwilling to listen to another point of view without dismissing it as "bullsh!t" or "anti-trans".
Said nobody ever.
I don't need to ask him. His qualifications are freely available. I'd say parents and other adults who may be parents in the future. Roderic is neither.
Well the post I replied to said pretty much exactly that
A 41 year old gay man will never become a parent?
Well if that were so, then there would be no debate. The reason some people are concerned is that there is the possibility of transgenderism specifically being explained and taught to primary school children. I am not convinced that there is any solid proof that this would have no negative effect on some children. As a previous poster said, it is not so much an issue when this is all in the realm of talk / ideas, but when, even if it is at a later stage in their teens, there is even a remote possibility of gender reassignment treatment being considered or discussed in any shape of form, then I think it is quite right to look at the whole proposal very carefully indeed.
Ah now.
You are arguing in bad faith and extrapolating the absolute worst meaning you can possibly take from a statement.
That's not very honest.
At 41, its getting very late in the day to become a parent. I don't think he's ever spoken about wanting children in the future. Nothing wrong with that, plenty of people don't have or want children.
My kid has a friend who has a trans mother. Why shouldn't kids be taught that this family type is ok, whilst they're in primary school?
I have 2 kids, one in junior infants and one that will be starting in JI next September. There is zero need to go into gender / identity politics in primary schools in my view. The message should be acceptance of everybody, that we are all humans, that everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect. Singling out trans, homosexual, travellers or what ever minority for special consideration only preaches division imo, its specifically stating that people are different and unfortunately differences do end up causing division.
It's a role of parents to instill values in a child, why do you think the state should have the same duty? Why do you want to outsource the role of parents to the state?
Are they currently being taught that it's not ok?
Why can't you do it yourself as is your responsibility? Why outsource it to schools?
You're answering my question with a question, which is a bit rude.
To answer you, I think the state has duty of care to protect children. If a teacher in a classroom explains that families come in all shapes and sizes, my friend's daughter has less chance of being bullied in the future for having 2 mum's, one of which was born a man. If left to parents to explain it themselves, well, you only have to read this thread yo see how people feel about trans people and how they'll explain it to their kids.
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