Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
why are you under that impression?
everything from the IRFU has shown that provinces cannot out bid each other. have you different information on this?
And I agree with that, but we don’t know with any certainty that’s the reason why they didn’t.
I’m simply making the point that a matched offer from Ulster may have been more attractive an offer to Healy than one of the same value with Munster.
Lol. How can Crowley and Healy both be 3rd choice for the province at the same time
No. Law 9 says clubs can't get in the way of international callups during designated windows (allowing for training camps)
Munster could be playing Tony Butler as OH at the end of January
according to all sources for Healy, it was either munster or abroad.
my point is that ulster and connacht were both precluded from improving on munsters offer, and thats the main reason there was no offer from either.
But how do you know that? Have we any source to suggest they would have offered him a bigger contract?
It seems like speculation to me. The only thing we do seem to know is that they didn’t match Munster’s offer.
im not saying they would or wouldnt have.
im making the point that you (the royal you) cannot say that connacht and ulster had no interest because there was no offer, without acknowledging the fact that they couldnt offer him more than munster.
ha dthey been allowed to offer more, no one here can say they still wouldnt have been interested in him.
as has been mentioned already, neither side flush with decent out halves
The end of January is not part of the release period. Nor are the rest weekends.
Because provinces are not allowed to outbid each other for players.
I think we agree, syd. This was your original post:
yeah ulster and connacht didnt offer him anything, as they are precluded from improving on what munster were offering him.
I was simply adding the point that they could have matched Munster's offer, and being 2nd choice at Ulster may have been more attractive to Healy than 3rd at Munster. But the reports suggest they didn't.
That's pretty objectively true and deserves a mention as part of the context also, is the only point I'm making.
Which I why I phrased it as "would have".... the fact they could have matched the offer was exactly my original point.
Is it just me, or does everyone have a bit of early-January narkiness about them at the moment? ;)
You'd think Ulster would have wanted him, but Scotland is a far easier task in terms of international selection, he may even get picked in a few weeks with Hastings' injury. Edinburgh is a lovely spot too
I dunno if its "far easier". Russell is pretty locked in still as number 1 and obviously far younger than Sexton. Its a complete mess behind Sexton in Ireland.
It really is though? Russell has fallen out with coach and been booted out multiple times, Hastings was dropped entirely at one point last year and is pretty much the definition of mediocre. They've now turned to a fullback in Kinghorn, who looks like...a fullback playing 10. Behind that I couldn't even name a contender. He pretty much goes in as 4th choice without having kicked a ball, whereas Sexton, Carbery, Crowley, Byrne, Burns, Frawley, Carty and Byrne Jr have all been named in squads ahead of him in Ireland.
In fairness everyone is much younger than Sexton at an Elite rugby level, Finn Russell is 31, still a long shot for him to be playing International Rugby for the 2027 RWC. Likely both have a single WC left. If Healy becomes first choice for Edinburgh it is very likely he will play for Scotland
Fallen out and brought back over and over again - I would argue massively undermining the Scottish coach's authority but that's their problem. Russell is definitely leading them into the RWC.
I would argue that Carbery often looks like a fullback playing 10. Neither team is well set up behind their starter. Healy's problem is that he couldn't get into a good position at Munster.
I would agree that he'll potentially find it easier in Scotland, but I don't think it will be a massive difference.
Worth remembering that his mother is Scottish - this is not a distant grandparent from NZ situation.
He probably has lots of Scottish relatives that he knows well who want him to play for them and his Mum may have been very influential here. The emotional element of the move from Ireland to Scotland may therefore be a lot less than the emotional element of moving from Munster (his home team) to Connacht or Ulster.
Also, as a young man of 23 the move to Edinburgh is probably quite appealing!
Blair Kinghorn
what about him?
Do you think that was an incorrect decision by the Irish management?
So eh... there's a game tomorrow, or so I'm led to believe!
I wouldn't be writing this one off as a gimme by any means. Lions can really play if they're let. Tshituka is class.
apart from Russell, Hastings and Kinghorn... scotland also have Jaco Van der Walt, Duncan Weir and Ross Thompson who are capped internationals.
charlie savala was brought up from australia with international aspirations as well, and funnily enough would be quite a similar player to Crowley in that hes an elusive running 10 rather than a orchestrator like Healy.
the path for healy is not exactly without competitors
no YOURE the narky one !!! 🤪😁
The 1st week in Feb is a release period and the squad training release period is the week before, which is in the last week in January
Technically Healy could be required to come back on Wednesday night, train, and then fly to Italy on Friday to play on Saturday and then fly back to Scotland but the laws say that the spirit of the regulation is just as important as the letter, and by convention, the Irish players are not expected to play the game between camp and the tournament so I think Healy would be unavailable for the Benneton game.
It's all hypothetical though
The fact he is being considered as a viable option at 10. Suggests the path is far easier in Scotland at the moment than Ireland.
Not only could he be required, but such a thing has happened with other nations many a time. There is plenty of precedent for it. Hell, the English clubs have an agreement for English players to be released and fined clubs for releasing Welsh players on the same terms. What the IRFU do for their own players is completely irrelevant.
Healy would be available for every game in the URC.
Does it matter what I think?
I was pointing out the timeline of when he might have expected a call up to an Irish squad as some posters thought he wasn't being selected for Munster at the time of national squads being selected.
funnily enough Blair Kinghorn as 50% more starts at outhalf in his career than Ben Healy does (33 compared to 22)
yep, he does, which speaks volumes about the lack of quality at outhalf available. I would say as a 10, Kinghorn could make Carty look like a superstar.
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