Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
You'd think Ulster would have wanted him, but Scotland is a far easier task in terms of international selection, he may even get picked in a few weeks with Hastings' injury. Edinburgh is a lovely spot too
Is it just me, or does everyone have a bit of early-January narkiness about them at the moment? ;)
Which I why I phrased it as "would have".... the fact they could have matched the offer was exactly my original point.
I think we agree, syd. This was your original post:
yeah ulster and connacht didnt offer him anything, as they are precluded from improving on what munster were offering him.
I was simply adding the point that they could have matched Munster's offer, and being 2nd choice at Ulster may have been more attractive to Healy than 3rd at Munster. But the reports suggest they didn't.
That's pretty objectively true and deserves a mention as part of the context also, is the only point I'm making.
Because provinces are not allowed to outbid each other for players.
The end of January is not part of the release period. Nor are the rest weekends.
im not saying they would or wouldnt have.
im making the point that you (the royal you) cannot say that connacht and ulster had no interest because there was no offer, without acknowledging the fact that they couldnt offer him more than munster.
ha dthey been allowed to offer more, no one here can say they still wouldnt have been interested in him.
as has been mentioned already, neither side flush with decent out halves
But how do you know that? Have we any source to suggest they would have offered him a bigger contract?
It seems like speculation to me. The only thing we do seem to know is that they didn’t match Munster’s offer.
according to all sources for Healy, it was either munster or abroad.
my point is that ulster and connacht were both precluded from improving on munsters offer, and thats the main reason there was no offer from either.
No. Law 9 says clubs can't get in the way of international callups during designated windows (allowing for training camps)
Munster could be playing Tony Butler as OH at the end of January
Lol. How can Crowley and Healy both be 3rd choice for the province at the same time
And I agree with that, but we don’t know with any certainty that’s the reason why they didn’t.
I’m simply making the point that a matched offer from Ulster may have been more attractive an offer to Healy than one of the same value with Munster.
why are you under that impression?
everything from the IRFU has shown that provinces cannot out bid each other. have you different information on this?
I was under the impression that they could offer more. If there was an outside offer.
by all accounts Healy was quite vociferous that it was munster or abroad.
seeing as neither connacht or ulster are allowed offer him more than munster were offering, then whats the point?
i severely doubt neither province wouldnt have been anything but delighted to take him in
Michael Bent arrived and played for Ireland before ever playing for a province.
i agree that they didnt offer him anything??
im pointing to a quite substantial reason why they didnt offer him anything.
they couldnt make him an improved offer
No I get that playing U20s doesn't prevent him from playing with Scotland but even the likes of Jack Grealish who was born in England and only played U21s with Ireland had to request a switch with fifa and get paperwork sorted before he could play with England.
It is different to soccer. 20s is not a capture side for Ireland. Its only if you play for senior international side in a fully capped game or for Irelands second capture side which currently is the A team in a game against another 2nd capture side that stops you playing for another nation.
Ulster should have offered a contract. Healy would really fit our style.
The eligibility rules are defined on if he'd either played internationally for Ireland, played 7s for Ireland or played for the "next most senior" international side for Ireland. Given an Irish A side or XV had played against the Maori and the NZ A selection, I can't see how the U20s would be deemed the next most senior side.
I think he's immediately eligible based on his mother being born there.
But he's played for Ireland at U20 level. Unless it's different than football there you'd still have to go through the process of requesting a switch from Ireland to play with Scotland.
It amazes me that neither showed any interest given their current depth at outhalf.
I would really doubt though that this was because Connacht and Ulster didn't rate him, or didn't think he was good enough to challenge for starts. Both clubs would have been very well aware if Healy was determined to pursue the international option in Scotland, and there would have been little point in making him an offer.
Healy's agent would be utterly negligent if this wasn't the case.
They're precluded from improving, but they could've matched the offer, and he'd have been further up their depth chart with a move. WHich might've been attractive to Healy.
Murray Kinsella seems to suggest they didn't.
He isnt changing nationalities. He has always been eligible through his mothers family.
John Cooney's situation is different - while his father is Scottish and he is as qualified for Scotland as Healy is, he is not eligible until 3 years have passed from his last cap for Ireland (23rd Feb 2020), so he won't be eligible for Rounds 1 & 2 for Scotland in this championship (assuming he decides to declare for them).
There's no process for him - he's not waiting on eligibility. His mother is Scottish, he's always been eligible for a call up for them.
It was in one of the The42 articles, I think I may have posted a link.
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