Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
Squad Update
On the injury front following our St Stephen’s Day derby with Leinster, Diarmuid Barron failed his HIA and will enter the return to play protocols.
Jean Kleyn will go for a scan on a knee injury and his availability for Ulster will be determined later in the week.
There is good news for Mike Haley as he will return to training this week after missing the Leinster clash.
In managing game time, Munster’s Ireland internationals will be rotated in the coming weeks.
Continuing to rehab: Jeremy Loughman (thigh), John Hodnett (thigh), Tom Ahern (shoulder), RG Snyman (knee), Fineen Wycherley (shoulder), Paddy Kelly (head), Jack Daly (knee), Andrew Conway (knee), Keynan Knox (knee)
Another way to look at things.
September/October the average was 1.8 points per game (red line up to the Leinster (A) game).
But from November (Ulster (H) onwards) there hasn't been a game without some kind of return (* including a theoretical return in the case of SA XV), with an average of 3.1.
This latter average would result in ~25 points from the remaining 8 URC fixtures.
I'd also expect a slightly higher return, if we continue to see further improvements on the pitch, and since that 3.1 includes games against Leinster and Toulouse.
Carbury has a bit more dog in him I thoughtHe chased back for a ball when the Leinster FB was almost through- Carbury ran across his line in what to me was a foul but the referee let it go.
A squad update after the Northampton match said that Edogbo would be out in the coming weeks unfortunately. Ankle injury. On the other hand, I could of sworn I saw Fineen Whycherly back training. I think we will need Jean Kleyn in Belfast alright. Probably beside McDonald. Would love to see a Casey/Crowley/Campbell/Fekitoa/Frisch/Nash/Haley backline.
It'll be a tough ask to get a win in the Kingspan, in what's likely to be a rotated team, but we managed it last season. Would love to see Casey and Crowley starting at 9 and 10. But with Ulster's maul, someone like Edogbo returning from injury would be huge for us, not really sure on this status.
I dunno, I don't work for the IRFU, I'm only relaying what the IRFU paid coach revealed.
Maybe you have another source for your musings?
Is that 8 out of 10 starts of do sub appearances count that the ‘not paymasters’ have dictated should happen
Beirne, POM, Casey and Carbery have all hit their limit in terms of game time. Munster went hard after the recent block of games.
I understand they're all set to be rested this weekend and potentially the Lions game also.
According to Andy friend the provinces were not given specific games in which to rest their test players, but more of a "play 8 from 10" choice.
So the games that players are rested for are completely driven by the provincial coaching squad and not "paymasters"
I think they will be made start earls, if they want to or not to allow him discover his form before the 6nations.
Carbery might have to be rested depending on the paymasters desires.
The big problem is depth in the second row and leadership.
Is anyone due back from injury?
Might still see a good smattering of internationals if the Lions game can be used to rest them ahead of the return to Europe. That said, Beirne in particular really needs a rest.
Above all, I would like to see Crowley start at 10; for all the talk about him, we need to start seeing what he can or cannot do in meaningful games.
Would be nice to give Fekitoa another shot too, there's a quality player there if he can manage to show it. Seems mad to have a 20-cap All Black drawing down a sizeable wage and not even in the 23.
Salmoa Has to start …..good a servant and all Ryan is he’s gone soon ….Ben Healy you’d hope will be there …..fekitoa and Frisch centres …Campbell deserves a start …..saying that we need points so can’t experiment too much
what team will start in belfast?
Surely Beirne and POM will be rested
There is a sizable injury list as well and not a lot of second rows around. The bench could be a bit of a lottery?
killer
scannell / barron
ryan
kleyn
mcdonald
JOD
coombes
klendennen
murray / casey / patterson
crowley
Earls
scannell
frisch
Nash
daly
23 points
8 games to play
Ulster (A)
Lions (H)
Benetton (A)
Ospreys (H)
Scarlets (H)
Glasgow (H)
Stormers (A)
Sharks (A)
You can more or less split that into Ulster (A), and the 2 games in SA.
Then 5 winnable games.
I reckon 50 points will get a QF spot, with closer to 60 likely getting a home QF.
The latter pretty much requires a win in Belfast, then an epic run of BP wins up to the SA tour. Then at least one win in SA, and ideally a BP or 2 in the other. Very unlikely (but stranger things have happened).
An away QF spot is still on though. I am confident in how this team is playing, and believe it's possible to get 20 points from those 5 winnable games. Even three 5-pointers, a 4-pointer and an LBP would do it. That'd leave only a single win and maybe a BP or two needed between Belfast and 2 SA games to reach 50.
A win on Friday would be a lovely start, either way!
Hey, I’ll have you know we’re better at identifying refereeing issues than you. I mean, no, wait….
I’m not sure Munster can complain about sealing off in that game.
It’s the Munster thread, so I can and will. ;)
The trope has often been repeated in here (and often made a mess of this thread) that Munster fans complain about the ref but the majority of complaints in the match thread were from Leinster fans.
You’re right tho, it was definitely a mess for both sides.
Edit: just to be clear, I don’t think either set of fans are generally worse than the other.
I’m not sure Munster can complain about sealing off in that game. Both sides were at it because Busby just didn’t officiate the breakdown well at all. It was a complete mess all game and both sides took advantage. But for me it definitely was partly responsible for the lack of back line effectiveness for both sides.
The way the game was going, I think it was the right call to retain a 1 point lead with Munster stuck in their 22, rather than trying a drop goal, tbh.
Best case scenario with the latter is a 4 point lead, Munster go long from kick off and even with a good clearance, we’d have had a platform to attack from close to half-way.
Leinster committed almost nobody to the breakdown after 70 mins, fanned out and completely smothered us.
Loads of sealing off at the end when they were in possession themselves, mind.
They did try but Munster defended very well. Leinster weren’t taking many risks though, a lot of low percentage plays in attack. Keeping possession while knocking on the door.
Leinster just killed the game in the last 13 minutes. Munster won a penalty on their own 10m line after 66 minutes. Crowley missed touch and Munster never got out of their half again.
Leinster went into auto pilot mode and strangled proceedings. They had one or two chances to take points but declined. Late on they had a straightforward penalty but elected to go to the corner to try and kill the game entirely as well as the clock.
Odd that Leinster didn't try to get one so, a one or two point lead is the worst lead with 15 mins left on the clock, no matter what control button you have
Nope. You pretty much spent the last ten minutes in your own half, and the last five in your own 22.
Leinster turned on the "control" button in the second half after going up to 20
I had hoped to get to watch the game before posting but I'm back at work tomorrow so may not get to see it before the weekend.
I haven't read too much on the game either so my thoughts are more or less based on the score and timeline of the scores. Seems to me we really lost that game while Leinster were down to 14 and even after missing the conversion to win it neither team scored in the final 15 mins. Had we any opportunity to try a drop goal in that period, they almost seem to be a thing of the past.
I would try Daly at 12. I believe he's got the skills for it. Big powerful lad too.
I think while Crowley and Frisch individually played well, I don't think them as a centre partnership works. The first phase strike moves were a mess tonight, it was like Munster were trying to be too finesse because we don't have a carrier in midfield that can win collisions. It was noticable that the only strike move that worked was the Casey/Nash lineout move on the lead up to the 3rd try. I'd love to see if Fekitoa can play in Belfast next week. As you said, Farrell is a big loss too.
Carrying power is definitely the biggest weakness in this team, stemming from mostly the front row and midfield offering little in this department. Leinster were happy enough to give us the ball around halfway and defend. Casey can help a bit in bringing more tempo and pace to the attack, but we need more units that can drive through the gainline.
Healy needs to be very careful if he's carefully considering Scotland. He's not a local schoolboy so will get tossed on the scrap heap quickly enough. He also won't get the plethora of excuses made for him.
Jaco van der Walt is currently experiencing that as he watches Blair Kinghorn fall over himself in the 10 jersey weekly.
Coombes can't be relied on for ALL the carrying. And really, since De Allende's departure, there's nobody else offering anything even close to that level of penetrative threat off the first phase. Top defenses like Leinster can spread and the wider game will stall. Salanoa, to be fair, had one of the most impressive carries of the night when he came on. Might be something to work with there.
That said, are Munster better than they were 6 months ago? Unquestionably yes.
Is there scope to improve even further before any new signings come in? I'd argue also yes.
Crowley will get better with more top quality game experience. Earls will get sharper after returning from the layoff. Edogbo, Ahern, Haley, Loughmann and Hodnett will come back. One of Farrell or Fekitoa may still come back in and establish themselves as a starter. Snyman might play again. Casey seems to be on a continuously positive trajectory. Joey had a blip tonight but has otherwise been in form recently, and will hopefully recapture that (for e.g., did we score again after he went off?).
Onwards and upwards.
Carbery missed a fairly straightforward penalty too.
I thought they were two easily matched teams and either could claim to be the better team on the day, but for me it was an even contest.
I think the issue with the frontrow is its hard to produce those big, power frontrow specimens that you need at the highest level. We have produced good frontrow forwards in the past for sure. But even in our hey days, the likes of Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, etc were very good players no doubt, but not big powerful ball carriers around the field. Horan and Flannery in particular were mobile frontrow forwards. I would say in the last 20 years the only big frontrow units we produced would be the likes of Tony Buckley and Denis Fogarty, maybe you can say Kilcoyne moreso in the way he plays, but he is not a big guy.
I think Salanoa is coming on well under the radar and I'm excited to see what he can do with presumely more gametime when Ryan departs. Loughman and Scannell are solid, Barron has shown nice flashes in the loose. But we need more. No doubt a signing will be needed next season, but hopefully though we can find/produce more Irish qualified players.
I think the team is going in the right direction overall though and the academy is producing more players than it did ten years ago.
The problem is when Leinster add back in Furlong, Ryan, Doris and Van der Flier to their pack Munster would have no answer, based on that showing. Perhaps Snyman and Loughman could make a difference. Maybe Hodnett is needed for balance in the back row.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wa.vanillicon.com/v2/ad289898c0c6dda7e667bf900ae26d0c.svg)
