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Bicycle and car at lights - car wants to turn left. Green light for left and straight. Who's right?

thetar

What should happen when a bicycle is in the bike lane, and a car is next to it - both at red lights. The car want to go left. The bike wants to go straight.

The lights turn green, a green left arrow and a green straight on arrow. In this case car driver turns left in front of me and starts shouting at me, even though I had a green light too.

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greasepalm

Yield to bike on left as many signs are around to watch out for cyclists at many junctions and to make sure your mirrors are clean and focused to see them.

lawred2

Not even a question. You yield to all on your left hand side.

crisco10

The car is the one crossing lanes, so should yield in that circumstance.

Del2005

According to the statutes the cyclist is supposed to wait for the vehicle indicating left to turn. But we've made up new rules and are telling people to yield to the cyclist.

So both are right, unfortunately.

spurious

Bit of cop on would help too. If you are stationery on the inside of a car indicating to turn left, much safer to just let the car go.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025503#Comment_120025503

No. Lights are red, cyclist proceed ahead of the car. No point in hanging around behind him with the driver wondering are staying put or moving forward in your lane when the lights go green.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025532#Comment_120025532

The driver won't be wondering anything if the cyclist makes clear their intentions. There is only one lane in this scenario and everyone must share it. If the cyclist has not made himself known to the motorist then as that cyclist I would hold back.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025746#Comment_120025746

Make clear their intentions? In the absence of them indicating they are turning left then the assumption must be that they are going straight on.

How, as a cyclist, would you know that you have made yourself known to the motorist?

So you hold back for that car, then another car moves up to turn left. Would you wait for that car as well?

Unfortunately, pointed out in an earlier post, the law is unclear as to who has the right.

I actually put this question to Dublin city council when they installed a cycle lane at the corner of Clontarf road and Howth road, and I was cut off going around the corner. Reply was that I should try to avoid an accident!

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025746#Comment_120025746

Incorrect, there are two lanes, the bike lane and the driving lane.

It's ambiguous to simply stop short of the car, behind the car or in a blind spot. It's silly for anyone to stop in a lane for no reason. Best to proceed to the red lights in front & in full view of the driver. Even better move in front of the car to the bike box given the the car is indicating left.

Wishbone Ash

In that scenario, I'd have positioned myself ahead of the car driver (where possible) to make myself more visible and to get a head start.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025473#Comment_120025473

I think you're confusing it with a situation in moving traffic where the driver is ahead of the cyclist.

Casati

This type of situation is the reason I hate bike lanes. I think if the cyclist cycles into the side of the car that in court both parties could be held to have a shared responsibility in this type of situation. Best option is to get ahead of the car when the lights change

iwillhtfu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025779#Comment_120025779

This is the best advice and not even so much to get a head start but to make the driver aware you're there. Most drivers see red lights as an opportunity to look at or check their phones so they may not even realise there's a bike beside them. Seems in your case OP you just had a driver that sees red when it comes to bikes.

As always when in moving traffic assume every car is going to turn in on you at a junction and try keep yourself in their field of vision if that means holding back or moving out. In spite of the militant approach of some and the law(I think, correct me if I'm wrong) saying drivers turning left across a bike lane should yield to bikes in bike lane I'd always give way to them.

greasepalm

I have also had to wait my turn when going into a narrow side street at 90 degrees when cyclists were travelling faster than me in cycle lanes and when free and clear then turned.

Jarhead_Tendler

I don't cycle but If I am in the car I'd rather not chance hitting the human on the bike so i'd only go if the cyclist has cleared me or if it is obvious they are staying put.

bmc58

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276699/bicycle-and-car-at-lights-car-wants-to-turn-left-green-light-for-left-and-straight-whos-right

Cyclist has right of way.

micar

Is this an actual junction or a hypothetical situation.

Does the road split into two lanes....1) left turn and 2) straight on.....and the cycle lane is to the left of the left turn lane

If purely 1 single lane .....cyclist should either be positioned ahead of the main traffic and ready to go in order to get away once lights go green before issues arise once the light goes green or remain directly behind said car and not in the cyclelane.

If as you described occurred....you the cyclist have right of way all day long.....no question .....as someone said make eye contact with motorist in order to tell them you're going straight ahead.

I would never position myself directly alongside a car in this situation.

Furze99

Cyclist has right of way but common sense says he who is bigger comes off better. Proceed with caution in other words.

magicbastarder

several questions; did the cyclist approach the lights before or after the motorist? depending on the layout, if the car is already there and indicating, and there is no decent cycling infrastructure, i would take the lane but pull in behind the car. so any motorists approaching from behind would have to sit behind me.

as mentioned above, i would not go up the inside of a car already indicating right unless i have an opportunity to make myself very visible.

if there's properly separated cycling infrastructure, i'd go up the front anyway (holding back from the stop line would be a little weird) but would eyeball the driver to confirm whether or not they'd seen me.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025788#Comment_120025788

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it

Is stationary for the purpose of allowing a passenger to alight or board the vehicle

Is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading

No I'm not. You can't turn when stopped and the car was ahead of the OP when they reached the junction.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/cycling/cycling_offences.html

tnegun

You just made that up, your own link clarifies it for you, and you're wrong I'm afraid.

John_Rambo

"bicycle is in the bike lane, and a car is next to it - both at red lights"

^^ quote from the OP... This is a very clear, simple & well explained daily set of circumstances in which an urban motorist finds oneself. If you're confused or find any ambiguity you need to recalibrate your understanding of the rules of the road & your responsibilities as a motorist.

No question about it.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120030008#Comment_120030008

You need to read the OP again.

GreeBo

As a cyclist I wouldn't sit to the left of a car indicating to go left, either move in front or behind them.

OP If there was an actual bike lane, was there not also a marked area for bikes in front of the stop line for cars?

Also, who was there first?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120031791#Comment_120031791

While this is the point of ASL, it is utterly ridiculous how infrequently they are observed.

ED E

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120035196#Comment_120035196

Guards themselves always fill the ASL box. Its farcical.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120028204#Comment_120028204

Exactly.

If the cyclist has a deathwish they are free to assert their right of way. At the funeral, they can be commended for following the rules of the road.

I adopt the cautious approach as a pedestrian, cyclist, moped user and driver. Never assume that the other road user is aware of you.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045367#Comment_120045367

Where a car and a cyclist are moving off from red light and collide it is very unlikely that there would be a fatality.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045384#Comment_120045384

True, but better to be a cyclist complaining in the pub to his mates about the bad driver than to be in hospital with concussion and broken bones wondering who you are. It's the same principle, just be cautious and stay alive and well.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045398#Comment_120045398

Which is presumably what happened in the OP. Where I did cut across someone while driving I wouldn't be berating them out the window