The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
I'm all in favour of being courteous and such, it shouldn't be an expectation that you must give up your spot or face being called selfish / guilty. Until a proper level of infrastructure is in place, it'll be good to take each case on it's merits.
If I was charging on DC and needed 20 mins to get to 100%, then someone asked to get 15 mins charge to get home. What if someone comes along and needs 10 mins from them? Suddenly my 20 mins is now 45 mins and so on.
General rule, I reckon, should be common sense and common decency in equal measures (although sometimes neither are as common as you would expect).
The issue with the charging networks is that in many cases you are are forced to sit on the charger for 45 minutes or longer taking the full available power all the time while, if the network was better, you could get enough juice in 15 minutes due to higher speed/better availability than the current 50 kW chargers allow.
We'll be heading to Killarney at the end of December and as far as I can see there is no guaranteed way to actually be able to charge in the town. So I will have to take a detour to the SuC in Tralee and charge up to 100% just to ensure I'll get back there on the return leg. This is a pretty major tourist town and having one 50 kW DC charger within miles and 1 or 2 frequently ICE'd AC charging units for public is not good enough in 2022. It was already bad in 2015 when we did our first trip there on an EV but now the situation just looks pathetic.
The hotel where we are staying has two charging sockets. Whether they are ICE'd, or in use, or free remains to be seen. But Tralee seems to be the only doubled up DC charging setup in all of Kerry. Ecars have 150 kW charger there also so it's the only place where you are guaranteed not to get stranded and not to have dodge the 45 minute fee.
Yeah true, I guess a more accurate analogy would be someone asking you to leave some of your shopping behind so they could go quicker. I know what I'd say, especially if they were asking I leave the wine behind 🤣
It isn't unreasonable to ask someone to go ahead of them, I'll be honest I almost tried it before when I needed 10 mins charging in a Leaf and there was an E-tron and I-Pace ahead of me
But it's not unreasonable if them to say no either, they've got their places to go as I did as well
Like I said, point the finger at the idiot charging providers who think a single 50kW charger is adequate
Sorry, I wasn't trying to undermine your analogy, more thinking out loud. I've never been asked by someone to skip in a coffee shop, whereas I have in Tesco. So I was trying to compare the EV charging letting someone in scenario, with a scenario I was already familiar with. I definitely don't think people should be kicked off regardless of how long they are there as long as they are still charging. But is it unreasonable of someone to ask if they can get X minutes of charge? That's the bit I'm undecided on.
Agree with you Raisin! You are paying for a DC charge, you stay there for as long as you need and no need to feel guilty because someone waiting. I have not used Ecars in a while as a joke, ionity all the way and no "selfish/guilty" thoughts enter my head 😂😂😂
Okay so you poked a hole in my analogy, does that mean it's okay to tell someone at a DC charger to p!ss off because you think they've been there long enough?
You can ask if you can go ahead of them for sure, but they're not obligated to say yes. From their perspective, if you need another 5 mins to get what you need then why would you sacrifice 30 mins to let someone else go ahead?
Like the person behind you in Tesco at the checkout who asks can they go ahead of your trolley with their handful of things?
Not sure what I'd do in the charging situation as I rarely charge at public. I guess if I wasn't in a hurry and it was their 5 minutes versus another 30 minutes for me I'd let them by. But if I needed to get to 100% then I probably would be in a hurry myself, more than likely to get home without having to charge again. Plus, in Tesco you can see how many items the person behind you has. Once you let in someone to charge, their 5 minutes could easily become 15 minutes. If you got bitten doing that once, you'd be unlikely to let it happen again.
How is it selfish? Someone needs the charger and they were there first
We're not talking about someone sitting on a DC charger all day because it's free
It's a paid service, it's first come first served. You don't have some sort of automatic priority because you're waiting in the queue
Think if it like this, imagine you were at the coffee shop getting a round of coffees. How would you feel if the person behind you asked you to get a single flat white so they can go sooner?
It's actually quite sad when "my version" of the right thing is helping fellow EV drivers. Selfishness knows no bounds I guess
Overstay fees the way Tesla do it are good, but not an arbitrary 45 minutes and then you're charged a one off fee. It's lazy, and punishes ill doers as well as innocents.
It punishes those who need to stay charging, as well as those sitting at 100% (or whatever their cutoff is). And once you've paid it there's no incentive to move.
It's an attempt to protect against an under provisioned public charging network, rather than supply a sufficient network.
I know ecars can tell when you're plugged in, but not charging, I've seen the data, so they could base the overstay on this, but they don't.
Not a whole lot of others agreeing with your version of "the right thing". Maybe you're the wrong one?
Unfortunately the Mad Lad quit boards in protest yesterday 😭
He truly lived up to his name
Anyone got any dodgy kissing photos we can publish to ensure his total victory?
Maybe get Madlad to be his campaign manager just to leave nothing to chance.
Kramer for Taoiseach 😁
I fear the only pushback, will be the mob descending upon you for talking sense.
:)
I'd swear EV owners won't be happy until DC charging costs €2/kWh with a €5/min overstay fee 😁.
Where's the incentive for a provider to spend more on extra chargers & infrastructure? What's wrong with having a single charger, in high demand, with high utilisation & consequently, high profitability?
Private companies remember, in business to maximise profit.
Not a public service provider & no responsibility to ensure Jacinta has minimal waiting time by spending loads more €€€s on a ultra high speed, multi charger hub.
It's absolutely fascinating how people, EV drivers, will argue with other EV drivers & demand more charges for themselves & punishment for other EV drivers, because private companies want to maximise profits & government do nothing.
Public charging (AC & DC) is now prohibitively expensive & very few people will sit on a charger paying close to €1/kWh, unnecessarily.
Petrol & diesel costs have come down significantly recently while public charging has increased 2x or 3x, yet no pushback by EV drivers, save for calling for more charges to punish those with bigger batteries who may need to stay over 45 minutes (& pay for it!).
This ^^^^
Nobody has more of a "right" to a charger, it's first come first served. There's no obligation to move on if you're paying for the service
The overstay fee is there to stop people abusing it, but they're flawed in their current form and need to be updated
If you're at a charger, charge away as much as you like if it's your turn. If you want to give it away to someone else work away but there's no obligation. The overstay fees are a great idea
It's one of the things I check when I get to a station and there's a car in front of me, gives me an idea of when they might be finished. Other things I check are the charge start time (can also be seen from the app) and the power being drawn
So who's sitting on an AC point on a fast charger? I haven't seen an ESB charger that tells you how much energy has been consumed on an AC charger. I have on a DC charger.
Do you spend much time going round chargers looking to see what the battery level is currently at on Tesla's?
Ah yes I haven't seen one of those old green units in years, the blue ones have a better distribution it seems
I believe this has been a known issue on many ESB chargers for years. The older triple heads were the main culprit I believe
AFAIK, there are two power supplies and one of them will prioritise the AC charger. So using the AC can cause the entire power supply to be dedicated to that side even if it isn't needed
Last time I plugged in on the AC side of a fast charger I drew 4kW, the car beside me continued to draw the other 45 so not sure where your experience came from
Deluded for hoping people do the right thing. It's a sad world we live in
LOL. You're deluded. I literally don't know what to say to that. And I'm usually unmatched in the loquacious department.
Agreed. Maxol (and Tesla) have really shown how this should be done. Tesla is the best as you get charged the overstay only if you're actually blocking someone . If you're charging at 2am and theres no one else there on an 8 stall SuC, you don't get charged. However if you're using stall 8 of 8 and all others are in use, you are charged a euro a minute!
You'd disadvantage the Leaf as well as switching to the AC side will halve the DC power
I don't think anyone is sitting on a paid DC charger because they're being petty, they're paying for the service so they feel they need the electricity
Free to use chargers however are just asking to be abused, as we've seen before
Like I keep saying, pointing the finger at other EV drivers is pointless, we need proper hubs
The overstay fee needs to be restructured as well. The Maxol hub in Kinnegar which charges per minute of overstay is a great example.
It makes our imaginary E-tron driver think twice about sitting on the 50kW to save on the rate and just sucking it up with the overstay fee
It says it on the display on the fast charge points
It would be the decent thing to do... Can't be expecting everybody to do that I guess
So I should disadvantage my notional etron by moving from a 50kW where I'm drawing 50kW, to an AC where I will only get 11kW, in case a 24kWh leaf needs it?
To use a phrase from a gormless fool that I hate, but it's apt here, Come on, man!
Exactly - if only Ana (and her new cousin Stephen, who sometimes responds on Facebook) could have worked that out.
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